Playback the Music Podcast
Join independent artists and songwriters Nina Blu and J. Xander as they talk about what's trending in modern music and how songwriters and producers can use different tools and techniques in their own work. Each week we give a recap of the Billboard charts and what you need to know about the music industry today.
Playback the Music Podcast
Genre: A Funny Little Thing
Nina Blu and J Xander delve deep into the dynamic and ever-evolving concept of musical genres! This episode, we unpack the groundbreaking release of Beyoncé's new country album, "COWBOY CARTER," and dissect the unexpected genre shift that's buzzing in the music industry.
Join us as we navigate through the recent controversies, including JoJo Siwa's latest media storm, providing insights and diverse perspectives on the impact of celebrity rebranding efforts. We're also ranking our favorite unexpected collaborations that have defied genre boundaries and reshaped our playlists, alongside a candid and hilarious discussion about our least favorite collaborations of all time.
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Welcome to Playback, the podcast all about what's hot and trending in music right now. I am singer songwriter Nina Blu,
J.:and I am singer songwriter producer J. Xander.
Nina:J, genre's a funny little thing, isn't it?
J.:It definitely is. Yeah, it's all over the place now.
Nina:It is all over the place. So, Beyonce has really put the is genre relevant conversation on the map, and you and I have been back and forth on this. We went back and forth on this. I think our whole academic Career.
J.:Yeah, we had an entire class about it. It was really interesting. We had to look at all the different billboard charts from gospel to rock and R& B
Nina:And alternative all like and radio play. And the international charts as well, we went through, we dug through.
J.:Yeah, and like throughout the years also, and it's, it's very interesting to see like the differences, but also like what all the genres have in common.
Nina:I remember one of our professors who was not our genre professor, and it was Bonnie, and she said that she didn't even know if genre was really relevant anymore. And it's a question that people at the very top level of music are asking themselves, and I knew that we had this genre class and I was sort of leaning towards genre is no longer relevant. But I knew that I was going to wait to make up my mind until we had completed this course.'cause I was like, I, I knew there's gonna be nuance to this issue, especially if there's an entire core structure on it. Um, so it did, it changed how I approach genre at least, and I no longer feel that it is completely irrelevant, but I don't think that it's relevant in the same way that the average listener would find it relevant.
J.:What do you think made you change your mind? Cuz I kind of was the same way at first too where it's just like I don't care about genre I'm just gonna kind of make whatever music that I want to make but I also Had a little bit of a change of heart after that class, but like what did it for you?
Nina:What did it for me honestly was listing out the instruments every week It was that specific part of the exercise. So our assignment every week was virtually the same, where we had to do like an entire production analysis. And we had to list every single instrument that we heard. We had to put in like the time signature and the key and the this and the that and go through the lyrics and unpack the structure. It was, it was actually, like, a little tedious, but it was a really beneficial exercise that I wish I'd kept up with. And I wish that I would still do every once in a while, because it really did make me listen and pay attention to what instruments were kind of painting a picture, and were really making something feel more like one genre than the other. And that was, like, the trigger point for me.
J.:Yeah, I still do it now with, like, songs that I like. I mean, I don't, like, write it down or anything as a homework assignment, but I think about it all the time, which, by the way, producers, if you're out there, that's a very good exercise for you to do as well. And also listening to, like, how the instruments are spread out. That's really cool.
Nina:Yeah, it's panning.
J.:Yeah, because it's, like, very similar throughout genres, how things are, like, mixed and all put together.
Nina:I feel like I should do that every time I have a reference track. I feel like I should pull up that document.
J.:Yeah.
Nina:Because it really does make you look at what do you specifically like in this and what are you trying to pull from it.
J.:Yeah, for sure.
Nina:So, in the is genre still relevant argument, a lot of people were upset that Beyonce decided to go country with Cowboy Carter. It is an incredible album. I believe it's an incredible work of art. She said that the inspiration for Cowboy Carter came from an experience where she didn't feel welcomed. A lot of people have alluded to that being when she performed Daddy Lessons with the chicks at the CMT awards, and I re watched that footage recently and I was appalled whenever it showed the audience, and you could see on Beyonce's face that she hadn't felt that ever. Like, she's never had a crowd not give back to her in some way, shape, or form, or at least she hasn't had that experience since somebody was like, who is this? But pretty much everyone has known who Beyonce is since Destiny's Child, or, I mean, I'm biased. I am from Houston, Texas, and so Beyonce is our official queen. Um, she does a lot for the Houston community. We all love and admire her and respect her.
J.:No, but I feel like even if you're not, you don't feel that way, like, you at least know who she is. Come on now, like, let's not kid ourselves.
Nina:Oh, the people in that audience that evening knew and didn't like it, and that was the look on their faces. And I think it was a combination of the Chicks as well who were ostracized from country music after their commentary about George Bush in 2001 or 2002, I believe.
J.:Uh,
Nina:We don't know for sure if that's what she is referring to when she said it was born out of an experience that I had years ago where I did not feel welcomed and the criticisms I faced when I first entered this genre forced me to propel past the limitations that were put on me. So she really pushed past that experience to be like, I'm gonna create something amazing.
J.:Good.
Nina:This almost didn't make it to the country charts. A lot of people were saying it shouldn't have been. There was a lot of pressure from country radio to start playing her first two singles before the album even came out, and Beyonce is now the first Black woman ever to have a number one on the country Billboard charts.
J.:There was a very similar controversy when Lil Nas X came out with Old Town Road. But yeah, I mean this really was the first time let's be honest, a Black person made the chart history like that, right?
Nina:And it's It's one of the most incredible things that I've ever seen and experienced. As someone who, I love country music, but I'm really picky about my country music. I like good country music. Um, and there's some stuff that comes out of Nashville these days that I'm not too keen on. Like, I'm not very fond of it. And there are a lot of country songs that straight up have, like, Trap beats to them. There are a lot of country songs coming out these days that have, like, guys speaking on pitch really quickly in a way that some might consider rap, and so it's weird to me that people say, well, it's not weird, I know exactly why, that country artists get to pull from other genres, but the second someone from outside the genre tries to make country music, there's an immediate pushback.
J.:Oh, it's something else.
Nina:It's something.
J.:Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm saying like people that hear, you know, people of color or anybody else outside of that, the minute that they hear them trying to do country, they'll try to call it something else other than country.
Nina:Exactly. Well, and as people who know their history about country music know, that country and R& B came from the exact same place, and it was segregated into those two terms, into country and rhythm and blues. Yes. And it was in order to segregate radio and to keep white artists and black artists separated as this genre started to gain traction and started to gain a larger listenership.
J.:It all comes from jazz, y'all. It all comes from
Nina:It all comes from jazz. This is true. And back porch pickin So what I found most interesting about the Cowboy Carter album is when Beyonce said that she had written it before she wrote Renaissance, and then the pandemic happened, and she said it had been such a hard time that people just wanted to dance, and that's why she released Renaissance first. And I thought that was an incredible business decision, because if you saw footage from the Beyonce concerts. Last year from the renaissance tour, it was an effing party.
J.:I mean that was the whole point, right? It's a celebration of house music and how it came to be and kind of reclaiming it. A lot of people think that house music is white gay people music, forgetting that it was made by black and latino people in Chicago.
Nina:Yep, and it was, I mean, Renaissance was so good, it was so fun, it was such a moment, and I remember when Break My Soul was her first single, and I liked it, um, but what was the second single? It was, um, Cuff It?
J.:Cuff It.
Nina:Cuff It. That song, when that came out, and the dance trend came out, I felt such a lightness every time I heard it. It really, it brought me so much joy.
J.:I still, I have Alien Superstar on loop, like, all the time. That's very much my, my aesthetic.
Nina:If you were to pick your, like, top moments from the Cowboy Carter album, what would you say were yours?
J.:The Miley duet is a good one for me. Um, I know a lot of, like, music reviewers and whatnot were shitting on it, but I don't I do not care. Spaghetti is a good fucking song. It's a
Nina:Yeah, it's so fun.
J.:It's I don't even know if I would say that it's it's a good song, but it that doesn't matter. It's It's a bop. It's a vibe. It, like, it makes you feel powerful. And that's kind of what I want from Beyoncé's music. There's certain artists where I'm just like, sometimes I can kind of forgive if like the lyrics or something is kind of missing from me there, if they give me just what I want. Like, Rosalía is another one where I'm just like, she can say whatever the hell she wants. But as long as she makes me feel cool and powerful and, you know, Ready to do my thing, like, whatever it is that I'm good at. That's all I really need and that's what I feel from Beyoncé also.
Nina:That's something that actually so annoys me when people try and compare any artist to Beyoncé is because I go to Beyoncé's for a very different reason. First of all,
J.:Yeah.
Nina:there's a reason why Beyoncé was the only person who could make this work of art. There are a lot of reasons and it's because she's fucking Beyoncé. I go to her to feel empowered. I go to her for that. For that high quality. And I always walk away from a Beyonce album feeling better about myself and feeling better about the world, even as she's critical of structures of power, which she was in Lemonade and in this album as well, like, and yet she still makes me feel like I have a power to do something about those things by the end of those songs. She also makes me feel empowered when she's talking about, you know, dancing like in Church Girl. That was a really empowering song for me too. And everything about this album just makes me feel really good about myself. That's what I go to Beyonce for.
J.:Yeah. And I think another reason why it made it so hard for something like this to break through, um, like country audience, like the really traditional country audience, is the fact that I think they, they really look down on highly produced music. You know what I mean? Like, if it's a spectacle, or there's like a lot, it looks like there's a lot of effort behind it, it, for whatever reason, for, for them, it's just like, oh, that's not real music. It has to be like You know, two people in a guitar, or it's just not authentic, which I think is absolute bullshit. I'm sorry, like, music is music.
Nina:And you know for country history, Rhinestone Cowboy was a thing. Like, country music used to be about spectacle. Country music used to be a lot gayer in its fashion. And I'm really, really sad about that. That these men, in baseball caps, and blue jeans and that's considered fashion. You'll show up to the CMT awards in jeans. Meanwhile women are dripping in jewels in evening gowns and it's like no I'm not gonna make any effort because that's girly. I hate that. It makes me crazy. Make country music more gay again Yeah, especially in fashion
J.:Yeah, and it that's the same energy, right? It just it almost feels like the more effort you put into something the less authentic it is I just I don't get it. I don't I just don't will never understand that mindset
Nina:No, I think that speaks to the larger issue with genre as well Is is it authentic and I think that's a large reason why people Say that they hate pop music is because they don't find it authentic.
J.:Yeah
Nina:They think that it's mass produced and um Sometimes it is but a lot of times pop artists what they're doing is they're seeking different elements from lesser known artists. Like, we have a phrase on this podcast that we use, and it's your favorite artist's favorite artist. It's those independent artists, it's those lesser known artists that they're pulling from, and they're really creating something that is new and re delivering it in a package that might just be a little catchier, a little easier to digest. And that's what really, like, the best pop artists do.
J.:Yeah, I mean, it's just, it's so weird, because it's like country music. Believe it or not, the people wearing the jeans and baseball caps their music is mass produced too, like they have corporations behind them too, you know, are you gonna call them industry plants or whatever bullshit that you're gonna tack on to pop artists for doing the exact same fucking thing?
Nina:Oh, the industry plant accusation makes me crazy.
J.:Yeah, it's so stupid. And it's always from people that, like, don't understand music or how any of it works.
Nina:No, and then I'll try and like very politely explain to someone and then they're like, well, what do you know? And it's like,
J.:More than you, yeah,
Nina:Going back to Cowboy Carter. One of her most genre bending songs, I think, is Yaya, and it hasn't gotten a lot of good criticism, but people everywhere love it.
J.:They're eating that song up on TikTok, so
Nina:I almost got in a car accident listening to it for the first time. I was so in awe, and I was in stop and go traffic, cause, Austin. I wasn't paying attention and I almost rear ended the person in front of me because I was like, this is incredible.
J.:Y'all heard it here first, Nina is a menace.
Nina:Dolly Parton has admitted to this too, okay? She's admitted to this too, she admitted to it the first time she heard Whitney Houston's And I Will Always Love You, she was in the car and she almost wrecked it. And then she admitted the same thing the first time she heard Miley Cyrus Wrecking Ball. So, Dolly and I are in good company with one another, okay?
J.:Wait, why is the visual of Dolly Parton driving a car so funny, though? We'll get into that later, but just like, picturing her doing it is funny.
Nina:I'm just a billionaire. That's why.
J.:There's that too, but yeah.
Nina:If I had that much money, I wouldn't be driving ever. I hate driving, oh my god. So, speaking of, Jolene also got a lot of backlash, or at least Beyonce's rendition of Jolene, because people called it violent.
J.:So, is, what the hell is her name, is Carrie Underwood talking about slashing up tires? Is that not violent?
Nina:That was my first thought. Honestly, there's a okay, Goodbye Earl, by the Chicks. There's a history of this. And if Dolly Parton literally recorded the intro, and she has said for a number of years that she's always wanted Beyoncé to cover Jolene.
J.:Really? I didn't know that. Yes. That's cool.
Nina:She has said for years. In terms of, people would ask her about Whitney Houston Oh, I see. Who else would you want to cover one of your songs? Like, who do you think would have such an iconic moment as that? And her response for many years was, I would love to see what Beyonce would do with Jolene. And she nailed it.
J.:That's interesting too, because a lot of people were saying like, oh, I want to see that too, but it's not lyrically on brand for Beyonce at all. So I like how she, she changed it.
Nina:She really made it work for her brand. And it is a much more empowering version of Jolene.
J.:Cam, the country artist, she had a song called Diane in which she kind of played Jolene's character and kind of was the response to that. And then she's also featured on this album, which I think is like a really cool connection there.
Nina:There were a lot of great features on this album. Especially in the Blackbird song. I mean, that brought me to tears. Absolutely. Like, when I first heard it. I had to listen to the album in chunks because it's so long.
J.:It's really long. I had to listen to it that way, too.
Nina:When I first heard Blackbird, like I was really very deeply emotional. I thought it was incredible.
J.:I thought the harmonies were really great in that too, but just, I do want to, I do want to touch on this moment real quick too, in her version of Jolene for a second. That little outro that they added to it for me was incredible. That's my only criticism of that song is like, I wanted that to be way longer. Also, just shout out to outros in general. I don't hear songwriters talk enough about them, and they're so good. They're always so good.
Nina:Nothing beats a good outro, you know? And then it's unfortunate because of streaming that we're not doing things like that anymore, like we're not doing really long intros, or we're not doing really long outros. You have to be someone like at that level, like at that Beyonce level, in order to really accomplish these kinds of things.
J.:That's true.
Nina:But my ultimate favorite like cameo on the album was definitely Willie Nelson because that made me laugh so hard.
J.:Oh, yeah,
Nina:it was like smoke our things. God bless Willie Nelson
J.:this whole album for whatever reason reminded me a lot of the movie. Nope with Kiki Palmer. Did you see that?
Nina:Yeah, I love that movie.
J.:Yeah I don't know why it just very much gave me that vibe.
Nina:Apparently westerns played like a really big part in the imagery. And the western imagery in NOPE is incredible.
J.:Mm hmm. That's like spaghetti western. That's what that's referencing if people out there didn't know.
Nina:Yep. Moving on to another massive genre controversy that you and I have been back and forth about via text all this week. Jojo Siwa released her new song, Karma, on April 5th to a lot, a lot of backlash, especially after she came out and said that she wanted to invent a new genre and call it gay pop. J, what was your take on that?
J.:Put me on the spot. Well first of all, how do you say you're inventing a new genre, but then also go on to list songs that already exist that would fit into that genre? At that point, I don't feel like you've invented anything, you're just making a playlist.
Nina:Yeah,
J.:You're putting yourself on a playlist with other people, but also Let's say for a second. Okay, maybe it is a new genre. What is it that would classify it as such, right? A lot of the times it goes back to the instrumental. If we listen to her version of Karma It's a lot of synths. It's a lot of drums That's a lot of autotune. You know what else has that? Every other fucking song on the top 100 right now.
Nina:Every last one.
J.:So, what's new? I don't understand.
Nina:No, like, that's such a good point, and you also made the point, and I made a TikTok about you making this point, that she didn't write or produce the song. So how are you inventing something? What are you inventing?
J.:I think that's a, yeah, very much a thing, but also, I think a lot of people are confused with like, the whole, um, Britt Smith thing also. Britt Smith did not write that song either, just so people know.
Nina:No, it was offered to her after Miley Cyrus allegedly turned it down. This was pitched to her for Can't Be Tamed, but Miley still had a deal with Disney, and so she couldn't sing Karma's a bitch.
J.:Yeah.
Nina:Yeah, it was too risque for her Disney deal. Um, and that's when she went into her Bangerz era, and the Bangerz era is something that JoJo Siwa apparently keeps referring to, when she's like, this is what I'm trying to do, and break out of this child star persona. There was a clip that went viral of, no one has ever made such a drastic change, and it's like, Really? Like, I remember the Bangerz era so vividly. And people were like, our children shouldn't be watching this. And she was up on stage with Robin Thicke. Like, that was an insane time to be alive, was the Bangerz era. Like, that was, it was truly An incredible rebrand.
J.:Yeah, I mean, say what you will about Miley. She went for it with gusto and then some.
Nina:And then some.
J.:Yeah.
Nina:She also had the support of her parents. I remember listening to quotes from Tish and Billy Ray talking about how they were very supportive of what she was doing when people were, like, being really hypercritical of her. She had to do that in order to be like, I'm not a child star anymore. We've watched Britney Spears go through the same thing. Unfortunately, the backlash from that probably was a majority of what led to her conservatorship. Her abusive conservatorship. And so we just don't treat women very nicely when they rebrand. Especially when they go from being child star to wanting to be like, hey, I'm a woman. And I think there's a lot of hesitation from JoJo's rebrand and that's what's preventing her from like really like diving in and doing something different.
J.:Can I just say also, I want to get your opinion as a woman in the industry, because I feel like women, they're almost expected to rebrand. Whereas with guys, if they do it, it comes across as weird.
Nina:Yeah, um, I feel like men can write the same song 50 times and not be criticized for it, as long as they're delivering what a person wants to hear from them. Whereas, with women, it's often No, I'm bored. Or it's the accusation that's often leveled against Taylor Swift, which is you only write about your relationships. Hello, 90 percent of songwriting. It's such a dumb criticism. It's such a stupid, stupid criticism. I think we do expect it from women, especially because I think it's a way of of dancing around the age conversation because there is a heavy amount of ageism towards women in the industry. And I think a rebrand is a way to look fresh and get away from people talking about well, you're 28 now So shouldn't you be winding down your career?
J.:I will say it's not always a bad thing to rebrand like Lady Gaga has been like 50 different people and she eats it up every single time, you know,
Nina:And yet she's always her You And that's what works about it. She's always same person, she's always still Gaga, she always surprises me, and yet I'm not, I'm, I never have a moment where I'm like, hmm, I don't know about this.
J.:That's not you.
Nina:That's not you. It's, it's always from a place of authenticity, is where the rebrand comes from. And I think that's what JoJo Siwa is missing. Because honest to God, if Gen Z is good at picking up anything, it is inauthenticity.
J.:Oh yeah.
Nina:They will label you a fake so fast.
J.:Forgive me for saying this, I like, one of the reasons that I feel like people are rejecting her version of Karma so much is because, I don't know, in my mind, she dresses like a 12 year old, so the idea of her being in a romantic, physical relationship with somebody is like, unfathomable. Like, that just, I cannot picture that. I can't, I do not believe her when she sings this song. At all. Not even a little bit.
Nina:I don't either. And the whole KISS imagery, KISS was controversial when they came out. They are no longer controversial, they are very much mainstream. I'm sorry, like, you would catch a bunch of dads and grandpas. at a KISS concert, therefore no longer controversial. Like, it is so past that. And so it also looks like she's hiding to me with all of that face paint and all of that glitter. Like, she's trying to put on a front. There is something so inauthentic about it. And honestly, if I were JoJo's people, I would look at them and be like, I would look at her and be like, cut your hair. That's all you have to do is cut your hair. Like do the princess Diana. Have a short haircut. That's literally all you have to do and people will be so shocked by that because I can't remember the last time I saw this woman Like wear her hair down. She has in like a few tiktok videos, but it's always up It's always in the dancer's bun or the dancer's ponytail. There's always some embellishment in it. So she still looks like she's going to a dance competition That's the whole problem with this rebrand is she still looks like she's on Dance Moms It still looks like a dance costume. It doesn't look like Kiss. It looks like A dance costume referencing Kiss.
J.:It's giving, it's giving Mannequin at Claire's. You know what I mean? It's just a lot. It's just a lot. I'm sorry.
Nina:It is, it is so much. And then also, people are saying that the Britt Smith version is better. Man, it's Timbaland. Timbaland produced it.
J.:I was gonna say, uh, you're gonna have to speak about this more than I am because there's no possible way I'm gonna pick, you know, I could pick out of those two, because anyone that doesn't know, like, Timbaland is, like, my favorite producer, one of my favorite musicians ever, so I'm always gonna love his stuff either way, but this whole thing is really fascinating to me. I don't think we've ever seen something where, like, the same song is. Charting at the same time like this and a cover because Brit Smith's version now is technically a cover It is actually doing better on the charts than Jojo's version of it.
Nina:Oh, Brit Smith's version debuted at number 8 on the US iTunes chart Whereas Jojo's version peaked at number 89.
J.:Yeah, and Brit is at number 3 now. I just checked it.
Nina:Oh my god
J.:Yeah,
Nina:I think she has a great voice, I think she sang the song really well, and as much as I really like Rock Mafia, and I do like DJ Whiteshadow, who is credited with producing Born This Way and Artpop for Lady Gaga, so with the rebrand that JoJo Siwa's trying to do, this producer made a lot of sense for that, but you're just not gonna beat Timbaland. Like, he is who he is, He's one of my number one producers of all time, and you hear that drum, and you just know, like you know it's Timbaland.
J.:He is the master of drums and percussion. You cannot beat him when it comes to that. And I will say, I actually like, I did like a lot of what Rock Mafia's like, I think, I thought their chorus hit pretty hard, but it's just like, you know, we see the shift now, um, with production, and it's really interesting to me, like, theirs is a lot more bare than Timberland's is, and Timberland has like a, has like a definitive instrumental going on in every single section, which we keep saying on this show, so, producers, write a hooky instrumental, it matters, it makes a big difference.
Nina:It makes a difference between 8 and 89, well, like, obviously, between 3 and peaking at 89, like, that's the difference, and that's the Timbaland, like, magic effect. And you're right, it's so much more interesting to listen to, it's not that I didn't like JoJo's version of Karma, I just wasn't impressed by it, and because it didn't have that interesting percussion or interesting instrumental, The structure of it feels very 2012. It felt very dated to me. It doesn't feel current. It doesn't feel like pop music that's coming out today. It doesn't feel part of the conversation. Like, this song doesn't match up to Tate McRae's Greedy. Like, it's just, it doesn't, it feels very dated.
J.:Which is another song that gets compared to who?
Nina:Timbaland.
J.:Exactly. There you go.
Nina:Because of the what? Percussion.
J.:Percussion, yeah. The instrumental.
Nina:The instrumental, it's so important. And so it's not that the song was bad. It's that the rollout was terrible. It's that the marketing was bad. Honestly, like, do the Princess Diana haircut, Jojo, and we will all just be so wowed. That's really
J.:But one thing I think we should touch back on before we move on is the fact that, you know, I think the biggest fault that she had, JoJo had really with all this, is that she made it seem like she wrote part of the song or was like inventing something new, right? Because it, I feel like it would have been really different if she had just said, hey, I bought the song. I really, cause I thought it was really good, and I'm putting it out. Pop singers do that all the time. A lot of y'all don't probably know this, but I'm sorry, your faves are usually not writing the songs that you're hearing a lot of the times. And that's okay. Like, that's why there's different roles in the industry. That's why there's a songwriter, there's producers, there's engineers, and there's the artists, etc. That's fine, but, you know, don't take credit for something that you didn't do. That's just unethical and messed up.
Nina:I think that's something that holds a lot of singers back is the fact that they don't have songwriting credit on something. So a lot of times, like, someone will add a section or they'll rearrange something or blah blah blah so that they at least get listed as a writer because the splits aren't published, um, it's just who wrote on it. So if there are three writers and then the artist Not every time, but lots of times it's because the artists want a writing credit because they're so afraid of this backlash of not being known as a writer. And we just, as long as everybody gets paid, why does anybody have a problem with the fact that somebody is singing a song that they didn't write?
J.:Yeah.
Nina:They're the right voice for it. Like, clearly, or it wouldn't be doing well, is usually how it goes. And so, you're right. Like, that, that is one of those things that annoys me, that peeves me. Nothing JoJo did was wrong except for how she approached it when she talked about it, like she did write it. Or like she was part of the writing process. That's the only thing that she did wrong.
J.:Yeah.
Nina:All right, so J, in talking about genre and in talking about how we feel about genre, we decided to put together our favorite unexpected collabs. And there are really three ways to approach a collab. Either you jump into that other person's genre, the two of you meet in the middle in some kind of fusion between brands and genre, or the two of you meet outside of both of your genres and do something completely different. And that third one is really rare, and it very rarely works.
J.:I was gonna say, I don't think I have one on my list that's like that, so.
Nina:I don't think I could find one.
J.:Yeah.
Nina:I, I think theoretically it exists.
J.:I'm sure it does somewhere, but that's, cause I'm, yeah, I mean that makes sense, but I just. That's not on my list.
Nina:Please tell us if you can find it. So I have my top five. You have yours.
J.:Yes
Nina:And so why don't you go ahead and start with your fifth favorite.
J.:Yeah, so I'm starting off pretty strong here with an iconic one but i'm gonna go with Telephone by Lady Gaga and Beyonce and I think that this is one where it mostly feels like it's Gaga's brand, but the message behind it is so universal for her, well, not universal, I should say it's relatable for her and Beyonce, because this song is ultimately about Lady Gaga, she said that she was overwhelmed with kind of all the fame and all the, really all the work that she was dealing with, not even necessarily. Fame, if you want to boil it down to a more universal standpoint. Cause honestly, the older I get, the more I relate to this song, too. Just leave me alone. I don't want to answer my fucking phone right now. But just when it comes to this song, I really like how this song is produced. It's, all of the sounds and textures that the producers used sound very digital. They sound very club esque, but also it matches this theme that she's talking about, about a telephone. And that kind of matches with all the backgrounds and like weird panning effects that they're using with their voices too. It sounds really distorted and choppy in some places. And I think that really adds to the overall song and just how we perceive this concept of telephone.
Nina:The prosody of it is incredible. With the, the stutter effect that's on the vocals. And where it sounds like the call is about to drop. I was actually watching the music video to this song today.
J.:Incredible. Iconic.
Nina:It is so iconic. You could just tell that Beyonce was, like, on vacation in Gaga's brand because the song really makes sense for the both of them. It's a well constructed pop song. Beyonce comes in and it feels like a Beyonce verse. It translates really well, but in the video you can just tell like Beyonce was like, fuck it. I'm gonna be in Gaga's world And she was it was incredible.
J.:And also we should list because this is produced by Dark Child, which I think kind of also adds to why Beyonce was a good fit.
Nina:I mean Rewatching the video, it is so out of Beyonce's wheelhouse for the time. This is before Renaissance, this is before Cowboy Carter, and this is really when we started to see Beyonce is such a chameleon she can do anything, because she jumped in Gaga's world and nailed it. She was in that truck that had Pussy Wagon on the back.
J.:I was about to say, you better say the fucking name, you better not leave out the Pussy Wagon.
Nina:Incredible. And then they had that Thelma and Louise moment where they clasped hands at the end. Iconic.
J.:Sisters.
Nina:I love it. I love it so much. Okay, so my fifth, we have already talked about a little bit, is Old Town Road by Lil Nas X and Billy Ray Cyrus. And the reason why this is on my list, I do love this song. It is not necessarily my favorite song collab, but the story behind it about Lil Nas X not being able to get on the country charts. and Billy Ray coming in and getting on the song is my favorite aspect of this. I also love that Trent Reznor has a writing credit on this song because it sampled a Nine Inch Nails song.
J.:Yeah, that's amazing.
Nina:Which is so funny to me. But J, what do you think of Old Town Road? Or what do you think when you think of Old Town Road?
J.:I think of how it was crushing everybody on the Billboard charts for weeks and weeks and weeks. And I kind of think it is because it did a good job of blending genres together, and because it was being heard on radio, maybe people didn't know that Lil Nas X was black at the time? So I'm wondering if that had a lot to do with it also.
Nina:I think that it did. I think unfortunately there was a lot of racism and backlash to Lil Nas X, and then shortly after he was outed, which is horrible. He was launched into fame in a really rough way where he had to face a lot of racism and a lot of homophobia immediately right off the bat. And so, just for that reason alone, I'm always rooting for Lil Nas X.
J.:Oh, same.
Nina:I'm always rooting for him.
J.:I like that he always doubles down. You know what I mean? Like, oh, we're gonna call you this? And he's like, okay, bet.
Nina:I mean, he's an incredible artist. I can't wait to see what he does next. So Jay, what is your number four?
J.:My number four is gonna be One U2 and Mary J Blige. And I really try to analyze. Melody and arrangement and stuff like that usually when I'm looking at songs like this, but for this one I really couldn't find anything that stood out to me other than just like their incredible vocal performance. Sometimes that's all that I need to hear in a song to make me like it and it's really Interesting to me that you wouldn't think that their voices are Go together, but they kind of do. They do! Because it's, it's like a weirdly sharp tone for both of them. It's not necessarily like the most beautiful sound, but it is like very piercing and it's very like in your face in a good way. So when it gets to that preachy like that outro of this song is fucking incredible where she's just like in the rafters like wailing at school. Crazy, and you really believe what she's saying but I also think that they do a really smart job of like harmon of where to harmonize with each other with the, you know, the chorus and the we are we're one but we're not the same and they carry each other lyric. That's really interesting to me, but also the concept here is very clever. In that, the song is about bringing different people together. So it makes sense to bring different, unique, weird groups together.
Nina:Yeah, so when I was listening to the song, and it was the vocal production that stood out for me, and it was the vocals 100%. And it is the most rock you hear Mary J. Blige sound. Even though I've heard her with rock and rollers, so another one of my favorite collabs is when she was on I guess that's why they call it The Blues with Elton John. And that's my favorite rendition of that song. But even that she sounds very R& B, she sounds very Mary J. Blige, but that is kind of a more, like R& B song, even though it's not considered rock music but this is the most rock tone that I've ever heard to her voice, and that to me stood out in such a big way, I loved it. Just, just hearing that different tone come from her and how well it matches with Bono, and, and it's, it's odd in the best way.
J.:Yeah, I mean that he's a hard vocalist to keep up with but if anyone can do it, it's certainly her
Nina:She's a hard vocalist to keep up with Yeah, these are two incredible people like at the top of their game at the time that this came out. Yeah so I You're right. It's it's the vocals that really stand out and it's intelligently done and I think unfortunately nowadays A lot of collabs are not done in the same room because we do have the capacity to be on Zoom. We do have the capacity to work long distance, but if you haven't worked together before, Especially if you have a very unique vocal sound, I think you need to be in the room with someone because there's another collab by two of my favorite artists on the entire planet and they came together and I can't listen to that rendition of this song because I think it's so atrocious because you can just
J.:I was gonna say, we'll talk about that later, cause there's we're gonna cover our worst collabs too, like Car,
Nina:our worst is coming up.
J.:Yeah and I feel that way about some of the tracks also, but yeah.
Nina:Alright, so, moving on to my number four. My number four favorite collab is Smooth, Santana featuring Rob Thomas. I love Santana, grew up loving Santana. Rob Thomas is not someone that you would expect. to be on this track because he's such a gringo. He is, but he's like, he's now one of us, and I love that. And it's the rock tune of it.
J.:What is the song he sings in, he doesn't sing it, but it's the, in the Barbie movie. You know what I'm talking about?
Nina:In the Barbie movie? Oh, I wanna push you around.
J.:I wanna push you.
Nina:Well, I will.
J.:That shit, yeah. That's some good fucking white people music.
Nina:Oh, Matchbox 20.
J.:Yeah, he really ate that shit up.
Nina:He has a fantastic voice. He has a wonderful voice. This song kicks so much ass. I mean, it's a Santana song through and through the stakes are really high, and I think Rob Thomas came in and sang the shit out of it, and I think there's there's not gonna be another collab like this any time soon.
J.:That's really unfortunate.
Nina:It's really hard for white artists to venture into the Latin genre space with a level of authenticity, and I think because there's so much rock behind Santana as a brand,
J.:That's more accessible.
Nina:Because it is guitar heavy, that that's what made it work.
J.:Yeah, that's a good point.
Nina:Yeah. So J, what is your number three?
J.:So, my number three is Walk This Way, by Run D& C, featuring Aerosmith. And I almost left this off my list because it is kind of cliche in terms of weird collabs, but the more you think about it, this is kind of like the granddaddy of weird collabs. I feel like a lot of these wouldn't exist if they just didn't say, let's just go ahead and go for it and do it. And what I think is really interesting about this song is that even the instrumental sounds like a collab, a combination of their sounds, because that opening drum line, it sounds like a sample. I don't know if it is or not, but it definitely sounds like a sample. Yeah, it sounds like that. On top of like the guitar, which sounds live to me, so already you kind of get both of their flavor in just the sound itself. I'm not a big fan of the lyrics of this song, honestly, it's kind of weird. I know it's about a kid losing his virginity at a dance, and that happens, but just, like, the setup is kind of weird to me. But what I do like is the, the use of the nursery rhyme here, the hey diddle diddle. Because we actually learn that in school. School. A quick, easy way to put a hook in your song is to use a nursery rhyme. They're not copyrighted, so you can go ahead and basically, theoretically, just write any kind of lyrics. But yeah, you can put whatever words you want under a nursery rhyme and because so many people know them It's automatically that kind of familiar feeling. So try that out in your songwriting That's one thing that I actually haven't used in one of my songs before that. I'm eager to use somewhere at some point
Nina:so my number three is a very recent number three, and it is Girl in Red and Sabrina Carpenter on Girl in Red Song, you Need Me Now? And it is such a kick ass alternative rock song you don't expect. Pop Princess, Sabrina Carpenter to be on it. If you listen to her recent album or even her latest release Espresso. Very pop vibes. And she comes in and she kicks ass on this alternative rock song. And it's not a collab that I was expecting at all. But I'm so glad that it happened because I'm such a massive massive fan of the both of them
J.:Yeah, I wasn't super familiar with this song but when I heard the track start, I was like, how is Sabrina Carpenter gonna fit into this? Track that's wild to me, but she nailed it. She did a really great job with it and the the melody to this song was really really interesting how they played with like Timings and whatnot and rhythms and I feel like that's should be commended because it's like hard to come up with an interesting Rhythmic melody, you know what I mean? Cuz it feels like so much has been done already that it's hard to pull that off now
Nina:It is and I feel like that's why I love girl in red's music and she's another one of those artists that's gonna be one of your favorite artists favorite
J.:artists I got that vibe. Yeah,
Nina:she has that vibe. She's so incredible. She's so cool. I was listening to an interview with her today and the guy was like, so you got Sabrina Carpenter on her song? And she was like, I have no idea how that happened. This is my first collab ever. And she said, yeah, this was her first collab on any of her albums. And she said. You know, I think a lot of times, these days, it's done for marketing purposes. It's not really done from a place. I, she didn't say it this way, but she was talking about authenticity. And she's like, it just felt right to have Sabrina on here. So this is why she's my first collab. This is why she's on it. And I loved it. I, I just, I freaked out when I heard it for the first time. It was one of those moments for me. Alright, J, what is your number 2?
J.:So, my number 2 is Faith, by Galantis and Dolly Parton featuring Mr. Probs. And I had this song lower on my list originally, but as I revisited it, I just remembered how much I love this song, and it's so catchy to me, and I think it is such a smart way to put All these three people together. I really like how Mr. Props opens the song and he's, got this really soulful voice and The lead instrumental here is a sampled choir, which is very unique and very much a choice in this situation. It kind of makes you feel like, as the listener, that you're, never really alone, and that's kind of the whole message of this song. There's a short documentary about how they made the song on YouTube, it's like 10 minutes, about Galentis saying that this was like the first time that they had really Approached making a song like this usually they're about you know, they're DJs and EDM people usually they're about the beat but they really said that this for them was about the message of the song and you can feel that when you Listen to all the little details of this song like There's a riser that comes in right before the chorus in the way that it drops out right before the word me, and then later it drops out right before the word faith in me. It really builds up this belief in this person that's singing to you. But obviously, my favorite part of this song is when Dolly Parton comes in, in the middle, because I don't know how they mixed her voice here, that engineer should get all the Grammys in the world, because she sounds incredible in this song, it sounds like, it feels like she's God in this song, I don't know why, it's just, it's so epic, it's so spacious, the way that her vocal is mixed here. I also like how they wrote new lyrics to, I didn't mention this before, but this song is essentially like a, it's not a cover, but it's an interpolation of the song Have a Little Faith in Me by John Hyatt. And I like how her closing verse feels like a callback to the original song's opening verse. When the road gets dark and you can no longer see, just let my love throw a spark. Have a little faith in me. So, when it comes to that little spark, that visual he gives you, later on she's talking about how she wants to be that light for you. How she wants to kind of carry you on. And I think that was like a really beautiful way to kind of pay tribute to this song in a way that's not super direct.
Nina:No, I, I love all of that and it's so strange to think of how well Dolly Parton fits in this song, especially because of her brand. It is such an authentic lyric. That the lyric really feels like a Dolly Parton thing to sing. And so while the genre is so out of realm What she's singing and what she's saying sounds so authentic to who she is as a person and to her brand overall I think that's what makes this work.
J.:Yeah, it's weird You wouldn't think of her being like on an EDM track But after you've heard the song you I can't picture anybody else doing a better job with the song because I mean they wanted Her originally so that makes sense Which by the way, If you haven't seen the music video to this song, it's so fucking cute. She's like a bus driver in it and she looks like she's having the time of her life. She's like there hugging Galantis like the two guys. It's so fucking cute.
Nina:I feel like meeting Dolly Parton is like meeting a real live saint, like in the flesh. Feel like I would just lay down and cry. Like, I don't think I'd be able to contain myself if I met Dolly Parton.
J.:I'd rather meet Dolly Parton over Mother Teresa any day. Just saying.
Nina:Amen to that. I will second that. Don't tell my mother. Anyway, um, so we're on my number two, right?
J.:Yes.
Nina:Okay, so my number two is Exile, Taylor Swift, featuring Bon Iver. So, I remember when Folklore first came out, and I didn't know what to expect. I knew it was definitely a turn for Taylor. She had done country, she had done country pop, and she had done, like, pop albums. And so this was following 1989 and Reputation and Lover, so I was expecting another pop album. And I remember I heard the first four songs on Folklore, because everybody was talking about it online, so I was like, well, I gotta see what this is about. And it converted me to a Taylor Swift fan. And if you had told me before Folklore came out that Bon Iver was gonna be on Taylor Swift's next record, considering the last one she made was Lover, I would have told you you were crazy. And yet this works so well. I love this song. It's so heartbreaking. The lyrics are incredible. The duet is incredible. I love the perspectives that are brought into this song and how complex and hurt you feel for both of these people. Because a lot of times, we hear the perspective of one person, and when you really feel the heartbreak of two people in one song, I think that's a massive accomplishment. Because I'll listen to duets and still side with the woman. And in this, in this case, I'm still siding with the woman, but I feel for the guy, at least.
J.:Listen, okay, so, the song that makes me think of is somebody that I used to know by Goethe. Cause he was like, I don't know where to go with this song, so he was like, let me bring Kimbra in. And I was like, listen, for the song, that was the best choice. For you, not so much. Cause she ate you up, bruh.
Nina:I shouldn't make it on my unexpected collabs, because it's not outside of the realm of possibility, right? Like, if I heard about this in advance, I'd be like, oh, that makes sense for them to work together.
J.:Right.
Nina:So the way that I defined my list was like, huh, who? And that's kind of the edge that I was going for, but god, I love that song.
J.:Same, same. So, songwriters, if you don't know where to go with a song or a duet, especially like a love story, maybe bring, you know, the other perspective in. That might be cool.
Nina:That's always fun. Always super fun. Alright, J, what is your number one?
J.:So, she give it to you every time. She tops my list again. This is gonna be with, Annie Lennox, well Aretha Franklin and Annie Lennox. This is gonna be sisters are doing it for themselves. I mean this is an incredible vocal performance, right? It's just two powerhouses really singing together. What I like about this song is that it doesn't feel like they're trying to overpower each other. It really feels like one is giving and the other is taking. And I love how monstrously huge the chorus sounds, right? That really adds to the message of this song. And I think that I really enjoy how verse 2 is written here, specifically in the song. That's hard to do. It's hard to write a second verse. I feel like that, that or a bridge is always where songwriters are like, I don't know how to write, I don't know how to music anymore, you know? But here, it really, It talks about women in all the different ways that they can, all the different things that they can be, it goes from mothers, daughters, the big picture, to their kind of occupation, getting a little bit more into the minutiae. They're doctors, they're lawyers now. And then Annie Lennox says, guess what? There's one right next to you too! One right there. So it kind of, it, it very, feels very pointed at like the most misogynist person ever to make them feel uncomfortable. And I appreciate that a lot. I think that was very smart and very powerfully done.
Nina:So, I love this song. It feels like they met in the middle. This is one of those collabs that feels like they, they combined worlds. Especially in the production. It feels like Aretha Franklin meets Eurythmics. That's what it feels like. And that's what's so brilliant about it. I recently did a deep dive on Respect by Aretha Franklin and where it came from. Apparently, originally it was an Otis Redding song that was like bonkers misogynistic and she and her sisters were like, no, we can do this better. And they did it so much better that it is number one out of 500 on Rolling Stone's greatest songs of all time.
J.:Yeah, for you Gen Zers that don't know Aretha Franklin was the Kelly Clarkson of her day in that you don't want her covering your song because it's just after that it's just hers. I'm sorry.
Nina:Yeah, it's hers now. Yeah.
J.:I'm sorry to Otis Redding and Carole King. It's just those are her songs now
Nina:And I'm not sorry to either of them, because it's Aretha Franklin. But no, so this is one of those where genres and worlds combined in a way that made a lot of sense. Because Aretha Franklin, her big hit with Respect was, really resonant for women at the time because women couldn't get a line of credit by themselves and even though women could have a job, it was likely that your husband was in control of your finances. You couldn't get a bank account in most cases without your husband's signature, even your own like checking account. And so talking about give me a little respect when I contribute to the family's wealth as well, which is what that song is really about. is incredible, amazing, sisters are doing it for are doing for themselves, was like the next step, I feel. This just, it, it felt like such a great topic for all of them to come together on as well, because fuck yeah, feminism.
J.:Respect was Charmander, this song was Charizard.
Nina:Bingo. Alright, so, my final unexpected collab is Beyonce featuring Jack White with Don't Hurt Yourself. The Lemonade album is one of my favorite albums of all time. It is one of my no skips albums. I bought the movie on iTunes, I remember this, and I think I watched it like every other day for two months straight. I mean, I love everything about this album, and when I was first listening to it, I was like, Nearly floored with how amazing this song was and apparently Jack White Led to the creation of Cowboy Carter like he nudged her in this direction. So there's there's some report about that. So I hope I love that and this song just kicks ass every time it goes so hard and there are rumors that act three is gonna be a rock album and this song makes me hope that it is I hope Beyonce brings back rock music. It'd be incredible.
J.:Yeah, this I love this song, too I don't know why I didn't put I I felt like I could only have one Beyonce song just to like spread it out Between other artists all
Nina:the way to yeah.
J.:And I was like, I can't I can't not pick her and gaga Like that's just too iconic for me You but yeah, this song means a lot to me, too. I actually used this as a reference track for one of the songs on my album that I've been working on for a while.
Nina:Awesome.
J.:Yeah.
Nina:But yeah, this song goes hard, it kicks ass, and I hope that they collaborate again, cause I, I just want more from them. And, ugh, the way that the distortion rings out. I would give anything to see the two of them perform this live. Like, with the two of them together, I saw Lemonade in concert and that was truly transcendent and one of the greatest concert experiences of my entire life and I mean, you just, you're not gonna top, you're not gonna top Beyonce at the top of her game. And I saw her in Houston, so it was very emotional because I've admired her my whole life long and Beyonce, I love you. If there's anything people take away from this, it's please know, Beyonce, I love you.
J.:Should we move on to our worst?
Nina:Yes. Please. Please. J, what is Your third least favorite unexpected collab.
J.:So,
Nina:or call it collab failures, collab or top three collab failures.
J.:Yeah. so my number three, I'm gonna start with ME!, by Taylor Swift and Brandon Urie. And, I'm sorry, Swifty, that's my number two. Yeah, I'm sorry Swifties. But what this is on Lover right?
Nina:Swifties don't even like it. Swifties make fun of it. If you ask Swifties, like, what her worst songs are, it's this and Bad Blood. That's what you're gonna get every time.
J.:Yeah. And, I mean, I think, honestly, I think Bad Blood sounds Mozartian compared to this song.
Nina:Amen, especially the Kendrick Lamar version.
J.:Yeah.
Nina:At least you get Kendrick Lamar out of it.
J.:Yeah, because this is one where it feels like both of them tried to do something outside of their brand. More so him, but it just didn't really work for either of them. And it's also just not a really, I don't know, I just, this song just does nothing for me. At first I thought that she was putting it out to promote like, one of the Despicable Me movies or whatever the hell Shrek knockoff movies they be making nowadays, but I guess not. I guess it was just a real song.
Nina:It, no it was, and it was the lead single for Lover, and they credit with, they credit this song and how terrible it was with Lover being so underestimated my sister will frequently, my sister's the biggest swiftie I know, I've said that I think a hundred times on this podcast so far and Lover is her favorite album, but ME! Is her least favorite Taylor song, and it was so bad. She, they had to change the song before they released it because everyone was making fun of the hey kids spelling is fun line and they had to take it out because she says that and then she does like a cheer thing but there's no spelling involved. It's just, it's a terrible song and I remember I listened to this one podcaster, his name's Louis Vertel, and he was saying Why would you have a feature on a song called me?
J.:Makes no sense. Yeah
Nina:No sense at all And the line about the popular girls or something like that. It's like woman you're in your thirties, okay? You're too old to be talking about the popular girls. First of all, you are the popular girl. You're Taylor Swift.
J.:Yeah you're a supermodel, Taylor Swift. Like, you're not sitting under the bleachers anymore. I'm sorry. You're not that girl anymore.
Nina:No, I mean, I, the Taylor Swift backlash is insane to me, but, god, this song is terrible. It's so bad. It's so bad. Shall we move on?
J.:Please. What are we on now? It's
Nina:My third.
J.:Oh, your third. Okay, go ahead.
Nina:My number three. My third least favorite. This might actually be my number one. I didn't, I didn't think too hard about this list.
J.:Honestly, I didn't even really rank mine like that. I just went, you know, whatever. They're all pretty, you know.
Nina:That's pretty much what I did. It's meant to be Bebe Rexha and Florida Georgia Line. I hate that song. I hate it with the burning passion of a thousand suns. If anyone were to play it, I would walk away. That is how much I hate this song. I think it's terrible.
J.:Why do you hate it?
Nina:There's a well known thing about, like, country and Irish artists is that they hold on to E's for too long. And the, if it's meant to be, it'll be, it'll be. It just makes me crazy. I don't like the way that they sing it. And it's also just a cheap English rendition of Que Sera Sera. Like, why, why take away from Que Sera Sera?
J.:Mm.
Nina:That, it, it bothers me. There's something so annoying about this song, I, I can't stand it. Even as much as I like Bebe Rexha. I also just don't like his voice, I think is what it is. His voice just grates on me.
J.:His voice is like, If you were to pull up like AI or something and you were just to say like pull up a generic country singer right now That's exactly what it would spit out
Nina:If it's meant to be it'll be I can't I can't do it man Every and that summer was like the worst summer of my life. I couldn't get away from that fucking song
J.:I remember that. Yeah, you're right. That song was like everywhere. So I hate that for you
Nina:I think it was number one for like four weeks or something like that. Like it
J.:was pretty up there. It was charting well
Nina:It was Everywhere and people loved it and I was like, no, I can't I can't name a Florida Georgia Line song that I really ever liked. I think it's just his voice I'm, sorry to him by the way. Because I feel like everybody has that one artist, they just can't stand their voice. I have nothing against him. Truly, I hope he's very successful, just very far away from my own personal ears. But I remember someone that I work with
J.:She said, sorry to that man, y'all.
Nina:Someone that I work with told me that they couldn't stand Florence Welch's voice. I know. They're like, I just can't do it. And that's when I realized everyone has that one voice that they just can't stand. And he's like, I have nothing against the woman, I hope she's very successful, I just don't like her voice. And that's another thing that I think happens a lot is people have to intellectualize why they don't like something so they wind up being mean and trying to come up with a reason for not liking something instead of just being like, I don't like it.
J.:Here's, here's, here's one of those crazy music takes out there, y'all. You're allowed to not like whatever the fuck you don't like.
Nina:And it doesn't make you a bad person.
J.:That's fine, that's fine.
Nina:You're allowed to not like something, you don't have to come up with a reason, you, it's okay to say this is not for me and just move on with your life. So you ask me why I don't like this, I
J.:You don't have to explain shit.
Nina:Really, like, I, mm, I just, it's his voice, I, I think is what it is. And the fact that, like, Que Sera, Sera has been done by country artists. It would work really well for them, but you're gonna hang on to B, oh god, it's so, I hate when people hang on to that vowel. I, I, I hate it, like, oh, oh, makes me cringe, especially, especially in a chorus, why, why do you have to do that to me? Yeah. Anyway.
J.:So moving on to songs of the summer that did well for some reason, my number two is gonna be Girls Like You by Maroon 5, and featuring Cardi B. And this song
Nina:also
J.:Do you remember when you said earlier where it feels like these two artists have never been in the same room together?
Nina:Yes, that is exactly what this song feels like.
J.:So, I would venture to say these people were not in the same state. In the same country maybe? They were, they could have been in different universes for all I know, you know, like Multiverse of Madness for all I know, because, they're singing two different songs On this fucking track He you know, he is very just kind of monotone throughout the whole thing and you know There's some maroon 5 songs. I really like but it just kind of sounds like he's just phoning it on And this one and to Cardi B's credit i'll defend her on this I think that she's doing the best that she can with what she's given and it's it's really quite sad there was a Old YouTube reviewer, shoutout to Todd in the Shadows, who covered this song, he placed it number one on his worst of list, like whatever year it came out, and he said that this song felt like watching a really good cheerleading and marching team song. Performing for the shittiest football team ever. It's exactly what this song feels like.
Nina:That's very Bring It On coded.
J.:Yeah, it's, that's what it's giving.
Nina:That is, and no, that's, I remember thinking, wow, Cardi B really did the best that she could.
J.:Yeah, shout out to her. Anyway, what's your next shitty pick, Nina?
Nina:My number one shitty pick, and here's why, okay? Cause it was so overhyped. I remember this as a child, especially, like, in Houston, Texas, which we have a really big country music scene, for those of you who don't know. It was so overhyped that these two artists were gonna work together, and are these two genres going to be able to mesh well, and people were talking about it, and there were think pieces, and it was on talk radio, and it was everywhere. And this was such a letdown, in that it's such a fucking boring song. So my number one worst collab is Over and Over Nelly featuring Tim McGraw. Awful. So boring. Just a terrible, boring song. Where are these two genres gonna go together? Can you mix country and rap together? Wah!
J.:You know
Nina:Apparently, but not in this song.
J.:Yeah, it's interesting cause I, when I was making my list for just The best of list. I went to go listen to this song because it's like infamously, you're right It's like one of those songs that's like brought up a lot in the conversation, right?
Nina:It was one of the first attempts at a crossover between rap and country
J.:and I commend them for that But like I listened back to it and I was like, you know, this song is really not it's not super interesting It's like doesn't really I mean I like the the over and over again like that's I mean, that makes sense, but that's like, that's an obvious way to do that, right?
Nina:There's repetitive and then there's boring.
J.:Yeah.
Nina:But I mean the verses are just so boring Yes, and instrumentation the production is boring. Like there's no really interesting if you're gonna have something really repetitive at least have an interesting instrumental line
J.:Yeah, it really felt like they were trying to do the safest version possible for, like, this particular collab, right? It's like
Nina:Uh, that's true, they're still, like, playing it safe, yeah.
J.:It feels like they took a risk, but didn't really. You know what I mean? Because there's no real, like, hip hop element to this song, which is like, yeah, Nelly's got a country accent, but I don't think just sticking him on a track makes it hip hop I think it would be a little, I think it's a little problematic to assume that it is, um, cause he's, he's just kinda talk singing in this song.
Nina:Yeah, it's, it's more of a speak on pitch moment than it is a rap. But I think you're right. I think they were doing something risky and decided to play it safe. Instead of like really digging in.
J.:And I get it, but.
Nina:Yeah, I get it too. But as soon as you said playing it safe, like that, that made so much sense to me. We got your worst ever, right?
J.:No, I haven't.
Nina:Oh, you're just the best for last.
J.:Yeah, the best for last. Okay, y'all, so if anyone knows AJ, the reviewer on YouTube, she introduced me to this thing called This song and I was heartbroken because Yeah, I was heartbroken because it was so bad. She started crying in that review and this is Accelerate by Christina Aguilera Thai dollar sign and two chains. I love Christina Aguilera, but ma'am mama What happened like? We were rooting for you. Well, I was rooting for you. We were all rooting for you. How dare you? This song is crazy. I I need a second. Do you want to talk about this fucking song? Yeah
Nina:I remember when you sent me this review because I didn't know that this happened and I think for some reason we were talking about like worst collaborations in a class or we were talking about flops or something like something like it came up and we wound up talking about it you and me and you sent me this review and I think I like fell on the floor. I was laughing so hard. Like it is truly one of the worst music reviews I've ever heard but the thing is I watched the review before I listened to the song and so then I listened to the song and I was like oh my god she's right on all points. The song is terrible, like, truly, like, I don't know who, who greenlit it. And it is the result of a bunch of people who have not been told no in a very long time. And that is sometimes what happens. Yeah. Several people get in a room, they haven't been told no in years, and someone calls it genius. And, wasn't it produced by Kanye West?
J.:A couple tracks on, it's really upsetting to me cause this song was like the first single off of her latest album after like years and years off. But yeah, it's like you, and he produced a couple other tracks on the album also that are like way better than this song, like Searching for Maria. But it's just, it's really upsetting. This song, production wise, like this song is called Accelerate, so it's about a car, right? But all the production and the percussion elements sound very smooth and hollow to me, so it doesn't really make a lot of sense in that respect.
Nina:Like Charlie XCX vibe.
J.:It just, listen, Charlie loves her cars, but, you know, they all have that sound, but this one does not. And I tried, I tried to sit through this song like twice, and one of the things I realized is that this song doesn't really have a chorus.
Nina:No!
J.:It has like a refrain that accelerates, and then that's kind of it. But there's no part where we actually get to hear Christina like, belt, like do her thing, and then it's just
Nina:Yeah, I think that's also what's offensive about it, it's not just that it's so weird, it's that
J.:It's badly written.
Nina:It's bad. We were talking about you know, we go to certain pop stars for certain things. I go to Christina to hear her fucking belt something. That's what I want to hear.
J.:Based on the two collaborators here, I thought what we were gonna get was like, a new version of Dirrty. You know what I mean? Because that would have made a lot more sense, but it just
Nina:Too dirty to clean my act up. Iconic. It's just some of the best, best adlib lines of all time.
J.:She, yeah. That song, that whole album, Stripped is so good.
Nina:So good. God bless Linda Perry.
J.:Yeah. But no, I mean, their adlibs here are
Nina:What's that she gave us? Um, Pink's album, Misunderstood.
J.:Yeah, Linda Perry's The best. And it's weird. I really like I actually like Ty Dolla ign. I think that he's a really good singer even with all the autotune or whatever. I don't really care. I think he sounds cool. He does some amazing riffs. He's not good in this song. He Neither is 2 Chainz. They're kind of just like yelling some of some of the worst ad libs you've you'll ever hear. They should have just did the Doja Cat thing where they literally said ad lib, ad lib. You And that would have been better, probably, in this song. Um, yeah, this song is bad. Like, I can't, there's not one good thing I can really say about it.
Nina:No, I can't find a good thing to say either, but again, um, the multiverse of madness, that's what this sounds like. It sounds like none of these people are in the
J.:They've never met. Oh, yeah. I would, I, I believe that.
Nina:Nope. And I think, ooh, it was bad. It was just plain bad. I think there have been a lot of good collaborations that have happened over distances, but this is not one of them.
J.:Also, shout out to AJ. She hit the nail on the head with that review.
Nina:Oh my god. Uh, you know what, if I ever get a really bad review, like someone just rips me a new A hole, I'm gonna go watch that review to feel better about myself. That's what I'm gonna do. Alright, J, closing up our conversation about genre and about collaboration, do you have any opinions on where genre stands and how artists should think of genres and how listeners should think of genres?
J.:You know, I still think genre is important because you, at the end of the day, you still want to give your listeners something to expect a little bit. There was once upon a time in another life, I wanted to be a screenplay writer and one of the things that I learned like early on about the importance of like genre is because You don't want people going into a comedy, and then five seconds late into the movie, you watch somebody get their head blown off. That's just gonna put people off. And with music, it's not, you know, that obvious of a comparison, but it's still there. You still wanna give people a little bit of something familiar and what to expect, so that if you plan on breaking the rules later, you know how to. You can't break the rules if you don't know what they are in the first place.
Nina:I agree with that. I think genre is relevant. I think the gatekeeping conversations are ridiculous.
J.:Yeah.
Nina:I think things that really piss me off, there's so much misogyny in genre. There are a lot of times that female artists came out with a rock song, and yet it will be considered pop music because she's a woman. And of course, everything that Beyonce's had to face in going into the country world. I think when people really hate on pop music, I think there's a lot of hatred toward women and girls and gays. In that conversation like underlying. Now there's a difference between like metalheads who hate pop music because those are some of the coolest people on the planet and they just don't vibe with it. That's totally different if you don't vibe with pop music But you could theoretically appreciate it. Like everybody gets down to at least one Britney Spears song. So, I think in terms of genre, I think it's important as artists, producers, engineers, it's like a color palette. I'm trying, if I'm trying to paint a picture of the story that I'm telling, I'm going to look at the color of the instrumentation. If I want a pop song but I want it to be really punchy and hit really hard, I might get real drums on it. Or if I want it to have like that really 80s sound and have a really nostalgic sound, then I'll go for like a Linn drum machine or something like that. So I think in those terms it's really useful to understand genre and talk about it from a production point. In terms of listeners, I think it does give your audience something to expect. And I think there's benefit in that because a lot of times you can defy expectations, but if you just completely come out of nowhere, I think that's really off putting to a lot of people. So I think it's good for that and I think it's good in terms of like putting people on the same playlist and helping people discover music that they might also like. And in those terms I think genre is really useful and still really relevant. But I think in terms of the gatekeeping, everybody has a country song that they like. Everybody has a rap song that they like. Everybody has some song from some genre that they get down to and it's about, like opening your eyes and being more open minded to find things that you will also like instead of this gatekeep y culture that we have in the industry, which makes me crazy.
J.:I'm, I'm just gonna say, I'm not the biggest country fan still, even, um, but you put a Rascal
Nina:Maybe once in a while a country song breaks through for you.
J.:But you put a Rascal Flatts song on, around me, it's done. That's, that's it for me.
Nina:That's right, you do love Rascal Flatts. I forget that, that's
J.:I love me some Rascal Flatts and Leigh Anne Rhymes.
Nina:Oh, all day long Leigh Anne Rhymes. Yeah. All day long. But, moving on to Playback Pick of the Week
J.:Okay, so my Playback Pick of the Week is gonna be, I'm actually gonna recommend a full album this time around, I haven't done that yet. But with the whole Britt Smith thing, it just made me think of like 2000s songstresses that I feel like don't get enough love. So I'm gonna give it to the album Voodoo by Alex, that's A L E X with a Z at the end of it, Johnson. She's an independent artist from Canada, and I'm really gonna age myself here, but for you older mil or maybe even younger Millennials that remember this the show So Weird on Disney Channel, she played Annie on the third season of that, and she put out this album a couple years later in 2010, and it's all themed around, like, spooky pop sounding songs. So Nina, I was actually gonna recommend this one to you. I think you would like this one, because it's, It's almost a no skips album for me, like the last song on it feels like a little out of place, but it's still fun but it's got great instrumentation, the lyrics are all like super creepy and like based around this horror theme, which I think is like this beautiful symmetry to her, like, originally she got her career started on like this kid's version of the X Files on Disney Channel. So for her to do this years later is like really really cool I think so. Yeah, check out Voodoo by Alex Johnson.
Nina:Oh, I love Spooky Pop. I am going to check that out. Yes I Vaguely remember that that's it's ringing bells for me oddly enough. Yes What was that? Anyway, i'm gonna look it up.
J.:We'll talk about it later
Nina:I am having, like, a bit of a playback pick crisis, because here here's the thing, dear listeners, um, I am so overwhelmed with the amount of good music that has come out, because Beyoncé
J.:She forgot to pick one, y'all, she's lying. She is lying.
Nina:Kacey Musgraves released an album, Sabrina Carpenter just released a new song Chappell Roan is just absolutely killing it, she just released a new song Maggie Rogers just released a new album, it's incredible, everyone should go listen to it.
J.:And we have Taylor in a couple days.
Nina:I'm going to be playing an album at the end of this week. I'm so overwhelmed. I am. The girls are just drowning me in good music and I love it so much. So I guess, my playback pick of the week is going to be Espresso. By Sabrina Carpenter. It is such a fun, fun bop of a song. It's performing really well. I am so happy for her. Her lyricism is so quippy and funny. And to watch her just really grow into her own brand and really find her voice. And how her voice echoes her brand, and her brand echoes her voice, and how it's almost like a dialogue between the two. She is so herself in her lyrics, and I love that. And it's a fun, catchy song. It is, it's a great spring hit. It really is. It makes me want to drink espresso on a beach in Italy, which is literally the music video. And it's rich, it's fun. It starts on the chorus, which I also love. And it's a good time, so go listen to Espresso and have fun.
J.:Alright. Any last words, Nina?
Nina:Last words? Yeah, because the Tortured Poets Department comes out this week. If you guys don't hear from me, I'm in a puddle on the floor crying, because Taylor Swift once again delivered an excellent breakup album right when I need it.
J.:Wonderful. We'll probably
Nina:She comes through for me again with Red, 1989, and now with this one.
J.:We'll probably be covering it in a future episode, or at least talking about it.
Nina:We'll touch on it.
J.:Yeah.
Nina:Alright, everybody, that's our episode.
J.:Go out and write a good song.
Nina:Alright, guys, go create some good in the world. We will see you next time.
J.:Bye. Bye.
