Playback the Music Podcast
Join independent artists and songwriters Nina Blu and J. Xander as they talk about what's trending in modern music and how songwriters and producers can use different tools and techniques in their own work. Each week we give a recap of the Billboard charts and what you need to know about the music industry today.
Playback the Music Podcast
A Collaboration on Collaborations - Feat. Dito Delirium
Co-hosts Nina Blu and J. Xander are joined by special guest, independent artist and songwriter, Dito Delirium! J and Dito share the creative journey behind their dark, sexy new song, "En Las Sombras." From the initial spark of inspiration to the collaborative process with fellow artists, we uncover the magic behind crafting a track that resonates with English and Spanish-speaking audiences.
But that's not all! We delve into the fascinating topic of collaborating on songs with others, exploring the joys, challenges, and unexpected surprises that come with working alongside fellow musicians. Dito's insights and experiences as a solo artist as well as with his band, Midnight Beverage, shed light on the collaborative process, offering valuable lessons and inspiration for aspiring artists and seasoned pros alike.
Whether you're a music enthusiast, aspiring songwriter, or simply curious about the inner workings of the music industry, this episode is a must-listen. Tune in now and discover the secrets behind co-creating music that moves hearts and souls!
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Welcome to Playback, the podcast all about what's hot and trending in music right now. I'm singer songwriter Nina Blu.
J. Xander:And I am singer songwriter producer J. Xander. And we have a special guest with us here today, my friend Dito. So Dito, why don't you introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about your musical background?
Dito:Hey, so what's up? My name is Dito Delirium and I'm an independent artist from Houston, Texas. And I'm also the lead singer of a band called Midnight Beverage. I studied music at the University of Texas San Antonio School of Music, specifically music marketing, as well as business administration, and I'm just really excited to be here, guys.
Nina:We're so excited to have you, and you and I got to bond over both being from Houston. The more Houston artists we have, the better.
J. Xander:What's it like with all the droughts and floods that you guys have to endure out there?
Dito:You know, they say, I'm in H Town till I drown, and we almost did there for a second, but we're still here.
Nina:We've almost drown several times in my lifetime. I remember, I was driving downtown, and there's just no telling how bad the flood waters are, and at one point it went, like, over my car. And I actually made it out, but I went full submarine for a minute.
J. Xander:That is, it's giving Atlantis to bruh.
Nina:It was terrifying, it was totally terrifying.
Dito:Oh my gosh.
Nina:You just don't tap the brake, that's all you do.
J. Xander:Well, you learn something new every day. Thank you for sharing.
Nina:All right, Dito. So we're so excited to have you on. You and J just worked on a song together called En Las Sombras. It has been on all of my playlists for the last couple of weeks. So why don't you two kick it off?
Dito:Yeah, so En Las Sombras was a really fun project to work on. And me and J actually got to collaborating on this song. It's our first collaboration. How we met, and moreover, we actually built the song completely remote from each other. I'm in Houston. He's in, you're in Virginia.
J. Xander:Yep.
Dito:So it was a really interesting experience. You want to talk about your side of things, J?
J. Xander:Yeah. So I always like to look for collaborators wherever I can. And I ran into Dito's page one day and I just. Just thought that there were a lot of similarities and just figured that we could make something really cool together. So I reached out to him because we were also in the same music fraternity. So there was already that little connection there. And I just remember being really open, both of us really being open to just making something cool and just seeing what came of that. But we can talk about the actual process a little bit later.
Nina:Awesome. Awesome. Alright, so, speaking of collaboration, how do you guys find collaborators to work with? Because I feel like that is an issue that I come across, and that a lot of songwriters, especially when they're first starting out, have to deal with.
J. Xander:Honestly, it just depends. All of us are music majors, so of course, naturally, the first people that you're probably going to do it with are your classmates. In some situations, you're forced to do that. And sometimes it doesn't turn out well. Sometimes it does, but it's always a learning experience, I think. No matter who you collaborate with, there's usually some lesson that you'll take away from it. Whether it's just how they do something slightly different from you that you might incorporate into your own style later on. Or they do something that you just really don't like. So you just never try that again. It always depends. It's always different. But we're lucky we live in, you know, just this day and age where you can find collaborators online, like pretty much anywhere. There's Instagram, there's Facebook, there's really whatever the internet is a big place.
Dito:Even like TikTok, you can find so many different people on TikTok. And I see a lot of videos of people coming up with a chord progression or like a beat and saying like, oh, I need a singer, sing this, and then people like duet it, and I've definitely gotten a lot of inspiration for some of my own songs on these chord progressions that these TikTokers have out there.
Nina:I've actually stolen a few chord progressions a few times. I've been like, oh, that sounds interesting, let me put it in a different key.
Dito:Yeah.
J. Xander:Which is totally legal for anybody listening that doesn't know that.
Nina:Yeah, that's not stealing, stealing. That's not illegal stealing. But I was actually just working with a songwriter in Austin, and he was listening to one of my songs, and he said, that's a really interesting thing that you did here. I'm going to steal that one day. And I took that as such a compliment, because it was just the way that I had structured the song. He's like, oh, that's really fascinating how you did that. I plan, I plan on using that. And I was like, you clocked it and you're going to use it. That makes me feel really good.
J. Xander:You should have ended it with, I'll see those residuals when. I'm going to get that check when, I'm sorry.
Nina:I didn't, I didn't invent that structure. I didn't invent that move. So therefore it is not mine, but, uh, yeah, you know, they say imitation is the highest form of flattery. But really we're all the culmination of all of the things that we've listened to and all the people that we've worked with, because it's such a learning opportunity to work with others. So, but I, I totally, I took that as such a huge compliment.
J. Xander:Yeah.
Dito:Oh, yeah.
J. Xander:And just adding on to that, like, another add on question is kind of like, why do you all think, or do you think it is important to collaborate?
Dito:Yeah, so I think collaboration is key. And like you just mentioned, we are a culmination of everything that we've ever listened to and experienced. And that, in essence, is collaboration with other people, if you think about it. But a really cool way to expand your horizons and maybe reach into different genres or instrumentations that you wouldn't typically reach out to. I mean, talking about me and J's song, En Las Sombra, specifically, like, I am Hispanic by nature, but I don't really listen to a lot of reggaeton music. And so when he suggested Let's do it. I got the one song I was, you know, a little bit like, I don't know if my voice is going to fit that, or if we're going to be able to like write lyrics to this, you know, but it's through that collaboration that pushed me to become more open and realistically a better artist for it.
Nina:Yeah, I think collaboration is so important. I remember, so we had a class in our graduate program that was specifically about collaboration and kind of like best practices and ethics and rules and stuff like that. And I remember I opened up the class and I was so grateful that J was in it because he and I had collaborated previously, but I think we learned a lot. Even collaborating with each other on 11 different songs.
J. Xander:Yeah, so for context, yeah, it was only three people in that course. Just because we took it during summer, so it was like a weird, I guess it was like a weird time frame. So, yeah, you, I, and Cati Landry got to work together. Very, we got very used to each other's ways, I should say.
Nina:Oh, yeah.
J. Xander:So that was fun.
Nina:Yeah, I think there's a huge benefit in working with people you're familiar with. I think there's also a huge benefit in working with new people. I've recently been expanding my collaborative horizons, and I learned something from everyone that I work with. And, you know, there have been several collaborations where none of us are gonna put that song out, we're not pitching it to anyone, but we learned something by the very nature of doing. And I think that's really important too. And we struck up a friendship and we support one another and that's, you know, opening up your network and getting to know people on a personal level because what we do by the very, like, nature of creating art is so personal. We tell stories. We tell each other's stories.
J. Xander:Yeah. You know, it's interesting because as an independent artist that does, you know, we're all trying to make a living off of it, right? One, I guess, misconception I used to have is just like, as an artist myself, why would I voluntarily split up those fees so much because you know there's contracts and there's everything involved once you collaborate with other people. So I'm like, what is the benefit of working with another artist? And it's I found generally it's good still to do anyway Because even if you all are talking about the same thing That other artist can have a completely different take on it and take the song somewhere else totally. Like, even with our song that we did There's certain phrases and things that he says and the way that he says it in that song that I'm like, that's so charismatic and I could never pull that off and like it just wouldn't it would sound really corny if I tried doing it, so, you know, you know, you never know Sometimes even if it's somebody that's close to your genre or really different you might still get something out of it
Nina:I love that. That's that subtle, like, sonic branding that comes in. So, speaking of branding, a little bit, I wanted to ask you guys, in regards to collaboration, how do you address the crossover of brands when it comes to two different projects and combining them? Because I think there's a lot of value in that, but I've seen people do it really well, and I've seen people, like, kind of miss the mark with it a little bit.
J. Xander:Uh, that's a really good question. I think That's why it's important to sometimes be choosy or picky about who it is that you're collaborating with. Like one of the reasons that I wanted to work with Dito is because we have a very similar Sonic brand. Like our music. It feels like it could not necessarily be in the same catalog, but if it switched over to the next song, it wouldn't be too much of a, like a weird difference. So that's
Nina:Yeah, like I could put you two guys on the same playlist.
J. Xander:Yeah. I think we would be. And you know, sometimes it's not always It's that simple, right? Sometimes it's better to take a backseat. Maybe you contribute something in terms of writing or production for that other artist that you're working with if it's not necessarily like a joint song together. It doesn't always have to be that way. Sometimes you could just come in and be David Foster to somebody's Whitney Houston. So it really depends on what it is that you're trying to make at the end of the day.
Nina:Yeah, for sure.
Dito:And I mean, Sonic branding as well. But even just like the actual aesthetic of even the cover art, I mean. I'm a very big believer in like, cover art being the first impression of your music to someone. Everyone sees it scrolling through Spotify or what have you, but when you want to talk about branding like that, I think the first step is to really understand and know your own brand as an artist, which can be really tricky for a lot of people, especially once you get past the notion of Well, I'm not at that Beyonce level yet, so it doesn't matter, but branding is something that should always be on your mind, and how you're perceived as an artist. And it can be really tricky whenever you're like combining your brand with someone else's, but you have these like, I'm thinking of like makeup palettes. With like Revlon, X, Jaclyn Hill, or whoever have you, finding similarities within your brands and really just honing in on those will help you find that really good middle ground.
Nina:I, I think that's right. Just a real quick tangent for anyone who uses Spotify. There is something called canvas and it is what plays over your song. It's like a little gif almost instead of cover art. That annoys me to no end because I love cover art. I feel the same way and I miss seeing cover art, like I miss looking at it. But there's such like a tilt toward video these days. Oh, it bothers me, but you're right, I love picking out cover art and I love, I love doing all the visual stuff too.
J. Xander:I'm not gonna lie, I don't really understand the point of them either, cause it's like you can't post the full video on Spotify even if you wanted to, so it's like, am I just gonna stare at this moving, this weird, yeah, that feels, that feels like something a crazy person would do. I would much rather just stare at the picture, if I'm being honest.
Nina:Me too, and then you notice things, but yeah, anyway.
Dito:I think as Well, as someone who actually really likes canvases,
J. Xander:Oh, well, okay. That's a different perspective.
Nina:That's your right. Okay.
Dito:It, um, definitely, okay, I, don't get me wrong, I love me a good cover art and, like, vinyl records, I love them because you have that one art and it's like a fixture that you can hang up on your wall, but when it comes to canvases on Spotify, I think it helps you to portray your song and really like help the listener develop the attachment to that song. Like what is this about? Because there are a lot of people who listen to music out there that are like, I don't really want to use my brainpower and figure out what the artist means. Like just like give me a music video or something and I'm always going to think about that music video. And when you have that canvas, it really allows your listener to dive into your world a little bit easier than I would say, like, a static image would.
Nina:Yeah, I think it does showcase personality a little bit better. In that regard, I do like it. Something that I saw that was really interesting, I'm a really big Renee Rapp fan. And so my sister and I went to go see her back in August? September? September. And What was interesting was the canvases from her Spotify were part of her performance. So she had like a screen playing them while she was performing and I thought that was so interesting and I think that showed like a deeper level of attention to branding that I hadn't really thought of before. I thought it was brilliant.
J. Xander:Yeah, because a lot of the times I've noticed that some of the canvases are not even like part of the music video. So I'm like, so like, what was this for really? So that's really, that's really interesting. I take that back, but yes. But most of them, okay. But that's really interesting that she did that then because she, she put them to use, which is good. She paid for them probably, so.
Nina:Her marketing team is doing their job. We love that. Good for them.
J. Xander:Yeah. Totally. Do y'all have like a specific process while approaching collaboration, songwriting collaboration specifically?
Dito:For me, I really like to listen to where the other artist is coming from first, figuring out their musical inspiration, seeing if we have any in common. And I And this goes for like pretty much everything in my life. I like to hear everyone speak first and then formulate my own ideas and then offer different perspectives, which is really ironic because I'm answering this question first. But, when you kind of take that, like, what is your vision for this song? What are you wanting to portray? Like, where is your soul right now? And then you can build upon that together and offer different perspectives. And I think it ultimately will help. You find that middle ground within that song easier.
Nina:Yeah, you started from before you're even in the room collaborating, and I didn't think about that. Like, my first thought was, oh, what is the first thing that I do, like, when the collaboration starts? And that's really important because I do a lot of research up front, before I offer to collaborate with someone, but if someone asks me I listen to a lot of what they're doing. I pay really close attention to how they play with lyric, I pay attention to their instrumentation and their genre and how they form melodies. That's really, it's really important to do your due diligence before you're even in the room preparing to write with one. Something that drives me absolutely bonkers is when people show up unprepared. And, and they're like, what are we doing? And it's like, I sent you an email, I sent you a SoundCloud with, like, all of my stuff that I've been working on lately, and you can't, like, glance at it before, before we get in the room? Really? That's the kind of stuff that makes me crazy. My uncle and I were talking about this last night, about when someone's like, I didn't read your email, but hey. It's like, why don't you go do that? And then get back to me.
J. Xander:Before responding, yeah.
Nina:Then we can have this conversation. But that's such a good point. There's so much that you have to do up front to make sure that you're going to have a successful session. I mean, it really is. It's hugely important.
J. Xander:Yeah, that's one of my pet peeves too. It's like, you know, if you're gonna work with somebody don't I don't know this sounds mean but I'm like even if I'm collaborating with somebody and it's gonna be like a fun time I also don't like to waste time because it's like I'm busy that person's probably busy let's you know do what we can ahead of time and then dive into the actual song You know in the process because one really important thing I learned from one of our teachers, Scarlet Keys, is that what's key when you're really going into the collaborative process is that you want to walk away with a song, right? And even though that sounds obvious, it's like some people get so distracted by other things that they'll get kind of caught up in what, what should this verse sound like? What should this chorus sound like? Overall, you want like a big idea that kind of ties everything together. Your North Star is what Bonnie Hayes calls it. Like, what is your big idea at the end of the day? That's kind of what you want your session to equate to. So I feel like that should, I feel like that should be the number one goal when you're first collaborating with somebody is figure out what is this song trying to do at the end of the day?
Nina:Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah. You have to be on the same page at some point, for sure. Yes. So this is something that I haven't had too much issue with. I've been really fortunate in my collaborators, but I have had some people have some difficulties. How do you guys, or how do you think you would approach like a disagreement or someone being obstinate about something? Because I, my patience is very thin. I have to take several deep breaths because I'm very meta about collaboration and some people really do bring their ego into the room and it and and it's taken me by surprise before I'm not gonna lie and it's something that does like really kind of make me crazy.
J. Xander:That's a really good question and it's also like Impossible to answer in a way because it's like, yeah, it's like everyone's so different and it really kind of falls back into like what the issue is, right? Because if it's a disagreement about like lyrics or a melody idea, that's something where. Ultimately, you can always say, Hey, let's just record a bunch of different ones and see which one we like best collectively. But if it's something that's fundamentally just like scheduling doesn't work or this person just doesn't want to comply or do anything at all, honestly, this might sound bad to say, sometimes it's best just to walk away and not work with that person. It's just like music at the end of the day, I feel like should be something that you're finding enjoyment in. That's why we're in the industry in the first place. And if it's becoming more of a task in that way, where it's just like nothing is getting done, then it's not worth it for anyone involved, I think.
Nina:Yeah, for sure.
Dito:Yeah, music should always be fun. And I mean, like, not even going like that drastic, but if it is like a disagreement with like, um, a lyric issue or perhaps even the way that you're performing, which I've gotten a lot. Hey, you sing this this way. Like, why don't you try it this way? And I mean, singing in and of itself is a. In my opinion, as a multi instrumentalist, it is like one of the most personal things, personal like expressions of music for me. It can be really hard to hear like those critiques, but I think just being open to their viewpoint and trying it, like you said J, like just record a bunch of different times, see what sticks, and also just like figuring out why, their why, as to why they want this different, why they want you to write the blue door instead of the red door, or whatever have you, and get into their mind space, and I think that ultimately will foster a better connection between you, and that is reflected within the final product.
Nina:Yeah.
J. Xander:Yeah, I think one of the most respectful things you can do as a collaborator is just literally ask what somebody thinks about so and so that you've just done. Like I remember our friend Cati one time when we were working on this project where, like essentially I was the artist for that week, so like the song kind of revolved around me, and we were writing a lyric of some kind, I don't remember what it even was, and she she said something like, How about that, J? Do you like that? What do you think about that? And I just remember thinking like nobody, no one had ever asked me that before. Like when it came to one of my songs before, so I was just like, I don't even know how to respond. I was like, I don't know. It just made me feel good inside that somebody would even care to ask me that. So that's always like a good thing to start off with. And a lesson that we also learned in Berklee that I kind of have mixed feelings about is never first. You should really never try to say no, right? You generally want to go into the direction of, what if we tried this instead? And the reason I have mixed feelings about it is just, sometimes, especially if you're the artist in charge, if you feel really strongly about something, don't be afraid to say, you know, what you're thinking also. So that's tricky.
Dito:It is really tricky, especially because if it's something that doesn't align with your brand as an artist, So branding is always at the heart of everything, isn't it?
J. Xander:That's very true. I didn't even think about it like that But yeah, I mean there's there's certain things that like, I'm trying to think of like two artists that you know There's a reason Beyonce says the things that she does as opposed to Taylor Swift. They have very different perspectives regardless of them being like the two biggest artists in the world right now.
Nina:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah One of mine was telling me this story about how she was collaborating on a song that she had written and they were putting the finishing touches on it, producing it, and like really fleshing it out. And they were like, what about this chord change? And she was like, no, absolutely not. And this is the sweetest, kindest, most perfectly mannered person that you've ever met in your life. And she was like, Oh my God, like, I feel, I feel terrible for almost having an outburst. And the two producers in the room were like, no, we need that emotional feedback. We need to know because you're the artist, like you're the one who has to be happy with this at the end of the day. I think she thought that her outburst was probably worse than it actually was, because she is such a sweet, kind, mild mannered person. But sometimes standing your ground is one of the most powerful things you can do. And I remember, listening to an interview with Kesha about how she gave her vocal away for free on that song, Right Round, that was everywhere. Oh yeah. And she's like, I was eating canned beans while listening to myself on the radio, and that's when I put the dollar sign in my name and that was so funny. But she said this and it stuck with me ever since. I think I heard this when I was like 18, 19, and she said sometimes you're remembered for the things that you say no to, more than you're remembered for the things that you say yes to. Because if I had said yes to that, I would have just become some video vixen, I would have been a one time, like I would, it totally, I would have been tossed away, like immediately, and I wouldn't have had the career that I did. And so I always think about that too, like sometimes your no's are just as powerful. Now I'm not advocating for being rude, but I am advocating for speaking your truth and trying to be, and trying to do so respectfully. In so much as you can.
J. Xander:I don't know why I think this is so funny, but like my favorite quotes from our teacher, Patrick. Nina, I don't know if you remember this or not. But when he was saying, when it comes to like brand, like the people that you kind of trust and believe and all that, the authenticity behind them is that if you were to encounter someone or an entity, that's like, I will try anything and do anything as long as it appeals to you. I have no integrity whatsoever, like no one would take that seriously. So if you say yes to everything you're essentially appealing to no one.
Nina:Yeah, yeah, that's true. That's so boring, right? Like no pushback, no. Like you said, integrity. And there's that whole phrase, if you're not offending someone, then you're not really making a statement.
J. Xander:Yeah.
Nina:And I think about that all the time. If I see something that like takes me aback for a minute because of my, I don't know, like Catholic school upbringing, I guess, whatever I've been conditioned to feel, and it takes me back for a second. I'm like, it's making an impact. That's what it's doing. And that's, what's really important.
J. Xander:Yeah, I mean you see that a lot with movies as well and basically any art form. Unfortunately, like now a lot of the superhero movies are flopping just because they're trying so hard to appeal to everyone that nobody ends up happy at the end of it, you know
Dito:I want to like take this like also because I'm also in a band. I kind of want to like talk about collaboration because I mean I do it every day Songs with my bandmates and I mean specifically on the same topic of you can't appeal to everyone, what do you do if you find yourself like having to collaborate with more than one other artist? Because When you're sharing two minds, it's hard enough to collaborate and find that middle ground. But when you have those three, four, you know, whole team of executives in the room. How do you handle that? And what would your methodology go about that situation?
Nina:I think that's when what you said earlier is so important. You have to remember everyone's brand and what your similarities are and approach it from there. And then something I'd like to add to that is sometimes the contrast is what's going to make something really powerful. So J was saying like the way you sing something he could never get away with. And so that is a talent that you bring, that's a contrast that you also bring into a project. And so I think like leaving ego at the door and remembering that everyone is a part of this project is really important and remembering what brought you together, why you want to work together in the first place, what those commonalities are. And then sometimes I find myself. What I love about another artist is something that I know I could never pull off or accomplish and I, I want more of that from them, right? So I want to influence everyone's individuality as well. And that's just something in me that I, I, I love and I, I find that really attractive. So I think it's about balance. It's about remembering anyone's ego can flare at any time. You don't know what people's triggers are, et cetera. And remembering to be really understanding person and remember what brought you together in the first place.
Dito:Right. And I think like one of the most important things to keep in mind through any like songwriting process is just because someone like disagrees with you or doesn't like your idea, it doesn't make it a bad idea.
Nina:Yeah!
Dito:It's like a really, really common misunderstanding and I mean music in and of itself is so personal that it's really hard to forget that or to keep on like this like insecurity train, but just remembering that, like you said, you have something that no one else can do. You just have to find it and you have to be open to experimenting with others to really get that.
J. Xander:I kind of like to have. the Rumors approach in this kind of situation when there's so many people involved. So it's like, regardless of what's going on in my life or whatever, at the end of the day, I'm there to serve the song, the overall message of the song. And there's really no better example of. How to deal with that situation right because that's what they did and that's probably the most toxic environment that you can face yourself find yourself in like within a band situation. But you know because they did that and they kind of left their egos at the door and let the music take over their their job Essentially when they were in the room together, they came out with probably one of the ten best albums ever
Nina:Ever, of all time, my number one favorite no-skips album. There is no bad day that is not made better by Rumors.
J. Xander:We should do an episode about that, honestly.
Nina:We keep saying that we will, we totally should, but that is 100 percent like, that is my comfort album. If I've had such a rough day that it's like, I'm turning off my phone, I'm turning off the whole world, like, I have that on vinyl. Like, that's what's going on the record player. Yeah. That's just me, though. That's, I feel like that should be a catchphrase, J, like, if Fleetwood Mac can make it through Rumors, you can make it through this cowrite you can make it through this bad band meeting. So Dito, you have experience that I don't really have in working with a band and performing with a band, and this is something that I'm learning, and I would love your best advice in terms of collaborating in those ways.
Dito:Yeah, I mean, it's a lot of the similar, like you run into a lot of the similar struggles, the similar, like, um, misunderstandings that you would just on a regular collaboration with an artist. I think that it's a lot harder of a discussion. It's like working on a group project versus, like, a solo project. I mean, you're gonna want to do things your way, but you also should listen to your fellow bandmates. Because, like you said, at the end of the day, it's the music that matters. And. When it comes to like a band and performing with this group, you have to have a clear identity that you all agree on and that you're all able to bring something to. And when it comes to like collaborations with other people, like within the music industry, I think it opens up a lot more doors for you just because like, There have been so many shows that I've played where I didn't know some of my openers and my management, like, was booking them and I was like, oh my god, these are great, like, these guys are so nice, they make such great music, and we discuss, like, hey, why don't we collab on a song, or, like, we're playing another show, why don't you open for us, or, like, we can open for you. It's really just, like I said, it's just an open mind, music in general, and it's It's that personality piece, like the personal, personalness, if that's a word, piece of like music and just remembering that it's, it's really hard to do.
Nina:I commend you for it. I am trying to like build a band right now and finding the right personalities even, even as like chill about it as I'm trying to be and stuff. It's a new challenge for me, for sure. Not one that's not worth it or that I've been having a particularly hard time with besides just finding people. But I am, I am keeping in mind the kind of people that I want to attract and work with. And I'm being really careful about that outside of branding. Just like in terms of, are they a cool person? Are they a nice person kind of thing?
Dito:I mean, these are people you're gonna be spending, like, literally, there have been weeks when I've rehearsed and been with my band more than I actually worked, like, my full time job. So, it's like a family, and you have to pick those people really, really, really well. That was a really bad way of saying that, but if you have not tried, and this goes for anyone out there who's trying to, like, build a band, I actually met my rhythm guitarist on this app called VAMPR. Like V A M P R. It's basically like Tinder for musicians and you can put like, I'm a vocalist looking for a drummer or you know, I'm a bassist looking to join a band. And you literally just like swipe left and right and you can have like your entire music catalog on there. You can put audition videos of like, this is a song I'm working on, what do you, do you have any ideas? And you can connect with people in really, really cool and unique ways. And I mean. You can set, just like Tinder, you can set your location to, like, the brighter horizon and find people to work with, even outside of your own state.
Nina:I've heard about Vampr before, but I haven't met anyone who's,, actually used it or found anyone from it, so thank you for that, because I've been waiting for, like, a personal recommendation, you know? Like, is this a scam? Is this real? Is this gonna work? So many of those out there these days. I feel like I need like a personal I need someone to be like, yeah I used it. It's like, ah, yes. Okay. I'll get it.
J. Xander:I was gonna ask so in terms of like the band setting, Dito. So what is that songwriting process like for you all like, how does that get started? Generally
Dito:When we were first starting out our context. We actually had We were friends with a pretty prevalent band here in Houston. They're called Gamma Wave, and they were doing one of their last shows before they went on hiatus. And they're like, hey, we have a spot open, and we know that you guys just basically formed. So we had pretty much a month to build an entire setlist from scratch. So a lot of our songs that we started out with were, like, our own songs, and just, like, kind of adapt them to be what Midnight Beverage would write a song like. When it comes to new material, we've found that we do run into like somewhat of like a, well I want it this way, well I want it this way, well I want to do this, completely different. So we find that sometimes there can be too many cooks in the kitchen, and a really good way that we've devised coming up with songs is I'll write the song with, like, my lead guitarist and we'll present it to our rhythm guitarist and see what they think about it and just having somewhat of a rough draft of a song and presenting it to others and asking for input at that point. Rather than trying to conceptualize a new song from the start with everyone involved because you're really just going to be chasing your own tail at that point.
Nina:I think that's so interesting because I've kind of found that a little bit too in terms of collaborations. If there's one or two people then it's a lot easier to like come up with the concept and really nail it down and have a good rough draft before you approach other people with it and then they can tie in as opposed to like having a bunch of people all trying to chime in at once. I feel like the max number of people that you can do the first step with is three. And that's only if you guys like really work well together. And, and that's just been my personal experience. And so that's interesting that you've corroborated that now.
Dito:Yeah.
Nina:Okay, so moving on to En Las Sombras. You guys have just released your first single together and it is a bilingual bop. I love it. And I just really want to know, what was the inspiration behind the track and what is it about?
J. Xander:We came up with a long reference list of just songs that we really liked the vibe of. We had some Weeknd songs in there, some songs by Lana Del Rey, Beyonce. And then we just figured, oh, let's just start with an idea here. This kind of concept that kind of ties all these together or feels similar. So at that point we moved on to cool potential titles. And then when I said En Las Sombras, Dito apparently really liked that. So we just kept working off of that theme and sticking to it really closely because I am really a stickler about that when it comes to lyrics. So, Almost every word should complement your overall theme. I was really careful to kind of look at that and make sure we're having like this really cool, dark, but like sexy vibe to it to tie everything together and make sure that there's no lyric or weird phrase that just is in there just for the hell of having it in there. That's one of my biggest pet peeves.
Nina:Yeah, me too, for sure. Dito, what, to you, is the inspiration behind some of the lyricism and if someone were to ask you, what is this about? Like, what would be your, your why?
Dito:My inspiration, when it came to En Las Sombras, was really, I don't know if you've ever heard the song La Fama by Rosalia, featuring The Weeknd. Very much, like, it's, it's almost personifying this idea of, like, darkness and in her case it's like fame and like what that does to you and you know if you watch the music video she ends up like killing the Weeknd and all this and and En Las Sombras. When I was like formulating lyrics and kind of like looking at this overall picture in my mind I was singing to someone but that person was really just like uh hidden desires and like temptations and those like Those like, what do they call them? Like, mini sins or what do they call it? Like, um,
Nina:Venial sins.
Dito:Yes, all of those. So like, that was where I was coming from, really just trying to play into, like J said, that dark, sexy vibe, which I love, like that, I love it. Like, the feminist anthems, like, I'm gonna kill my husband, Carrie Underwood all the way.
Nina:This podcast, we stan pop girlies who commit crimes, okay? Rosalia, we love SZA, the whole thing, like that is a known thing on this podcast.
J. Xander:Women in crime, yes.
Nina:I was listening to Goodbye Earl earlier today. So, we stan pop girlies committing crimes, we love it.
J. Xander:Amazing.
Dito:So, yeah, that was, that was what, what, I came to mind, I was like, let me, you know, slash some tires and get into like. Give in to those, like, deadly little, little desires.
Nina:I love that. I love personification as a metaphor. I think it can be really, really powerful. And I think it can communicate so much more than a lot of different forms of metaphors. Especially in terms of a song like this. I'm really curious, did you guys start out wanting to write something that was both in English and in Spanish? Did you first endeavor to have something bilingual or did you come up with the phrase En Las Sombras just knowing that you're open to using both languages in a song and then go from there?
J. Xander:I think we were pretty much open to anything but no we did not go in with the idea of like we're gonna write this song in Spanish. Well, I don't know about you Dito but I did not. I was just open to like let's just do something that sounds similar to like our favorite artists that seem to intertwine a lot here, and then just go from there. So when we came up with that title, it just, it sparked so many visual concepts for me. And I'm a huge stan of Bonnie McKee, and one of the things that she says is that when you're writing a song or just like approaching how you're describing something in music, you kind of want to approach it like you're describing a dream. And not just saying outright what's happening and with this title and this concept that kind of lent itself to it easily So I was like there's a lot to explore here. Let's go ahead and do that. But also I grew up in an era with like the early 2000s and reggaeton where there were a lot of male duos like we've seen in Yandel and all those guys and I'm like, it would be so cool to just like have that moment right now. I think that would be amazing.
Dito:Yeah, I mean, I speak English, Spanish and French and I listen to all different types of music, but when it comes to my actual personal music, I actually don't sing in Spanish that often. So it's just like another token for how this song kind of like pushed me out of my comfort zone. But I did mention the rise of like English- French music that I foresee coming within the American music market, um, in the coming few years. One of my favorite artists, her name is Angèle, and I always like to describe her as sort of the French, or she's actually Belgian, Ariana Grande. And a lot of her popular hits are both in English and French. And for me, I knew like, I'm more comfortable singing in English, but I can also speak Spanish, so let's just see how it sounds if we, you know, mixed it up, and I think we really executed it well.
Nina:Yeah, I mean, you guys definitely did, for sure. Something that a friend of mine told me, so she's a Japanese artist, and she mostly writes and performs in English, even though it's her second language. Her name's Hito Star, everybody go check her out. Something she said that really stuck with me was You know, I moved to the United States 10 years ago. Most of my major relationships have been in English. I feel like I've emoted more in English just over the last several years. So that's kind of like where I'm coming from. And I, I'm bilingual as well. I speak Spanish and English. Spanish is actually my first language, but I've become much more comfortable in English being educated in it and all of that stuff. I have a really hard time writing in Spanish and I used to give myself a hard time about that. Like, que la chingada, porque no puede. Like, I used to like really hammer that home with myself, like really shame myself. And when she said that, that kind of relieved something for me because I do, most of my relationships, like, have been with other English speakers because I live in the United States. I do emote most often in English. I journal in English and all of that stuff. So do you guys feel like there was a real, like, emotional element to switching between the two? Either by playing into that part of your culture, or just that there's a benefit because it gives, like, a certain level of instability there when you're talking about En Las Sombras?
J. Xander:That's a really good question. So for me, I'm going to be honest. It really depends on whatever is gonna serve the hook. So if I feel like there's a lyric that I'd have to switch to English and it just like doesn't fit or just messes up the trajectory of my melody, I'm just like, fuck that. I'm not gonna do that. I'm gonna keep, you know, the shape of essentially what I want people to walk away remembering, your overall idea is more important than the details behind how you're saying something.
Dito:Yeah, I mean, I think for me, it was what, and I was thinking, looking at it also from like different perspectives of how people might relate. And I think the mix between English and Spanish really like helped me to look at things from different perspectives. Because if you think about it, En Las Sombras really is about different perspectives and how you wish to view those desires. And sometimes one part of us wants something and another doesn't, and I think that kind of came through, maybe subconsciously, on my part.
Nina:I love that. I, I love it so much. On a more, like, practical level, I do feel like combining English and bringing English in is just better commercially, because having something that an English market, which is such a wide market, can attach onto, I think is really helpful. I think. A lot of the reggaeton songs that you see break through in the American market have some kind of hook, have some kind of English language element to it. Like, Titi Me Pregunto. Like, there, you know, he talks about like, take a selfie and stuff like that. I'm so VIP. And so those are like, English markets can really grab onto that, and I think that's helpful. So I think you guys actually struck a really great balance with that, even if it was like on purpose or accidental, just by intentionally crafting your song. I think you guys did a really excellent job about that.
Dito:Thank you.
J. Xander:Yeah. And also another thing that you have to remember when it comes to like songwriting itself, is that the hook is always gonna be like the most important thing, right? And just in my perspective, because I'm a huge Max Martin stan, that's kind of my school of thought when it comes to that. But even just incorporating like a non lyric hook. Like we did. That's incredible, like whether you realize it or not, that's incredibly powerful as far as getting stuck into people's heads. So a lot of the tracks I feel like that have crossed over, like Despacito, they have that. That's the reason why they're so big. It's not necessarily because American audiences know what the hell they were talking about. They don't, but they could sing along and that's all that really mattered.
Nina:Oh yeah, I could sing along. I could sing y'all's opening melody back almost immediately and I was like, ah, they nailed it.
J. Xander:Good.
Nina:Good. Excellent. So moving on a little bit more to the process of everything. You guys did this at a distance. What was that process like? What were your priorities when it came to working with each other remotely?
J. Xander:So we, we definitely wanted to focus on something that had. both of our vibes combined with it. And like I said, I always like to do research and some, some form of setup before we get started. So I'm really. I have like a really intricate sheet kind of, um, that I think that I like when I, when I pulled it up to Dito, I was like, I think he's going to think I'm crazy with like all the color coding and like how I have it arranged and whatnot. But at the end of the day, I'm like, creativity without any kind of organization is not going to help you at all. At the end of the day, you kind of have to have a structure behind it. So that was like. my big thing coming in. It's like, okay, let's try to do as much of this as we can. And then whatever comes to us later comes to us later. Yeah.
Dito:And it's so ironic though, because I'm on like the complete opposite side of that boat where I'm like structure or like a box that you're trying to fill like limits you. But I know like my lead guitarist is super like this song is gonna be about this. Every line has to rhyme or something, and I'm like, no, we're not doing that, Dr. Seuss, but I think, like, that is a really good interjection of, like, I'm kind of like So to speak, expanding J's horizons when it came to this song of like, what if we did this? What if we like, you know, did a verse in English or something like that? And J was really open to that. And when it comes to actually like recording and producing the song remotely, That was really interesting because we met and I mean, pretty much within like the first hour, J was like, oh, hold on one second. I'm gonna mute myself. Let me, I have an idea. And then he like produces the entire song and he's like, yeah, so what do you think? And I'm like, this is amazing.
Nina:J's famous for that.
J. Xander:Yeah, I was gonna say Nina's probably very familiar with that.
Nina:Very familiar. And then he comes back. He's like, look what I did. And I'm like, wow. Oh my god.
Dito:Yeah, so I think it just came down to knowing what we needed to do and being respectful of each other's time. I know for me it was really important that I tracked all my vocals and got it all done, like, as soon as possible, because if I didn't, knowing myself, it would take me forever to actually get into the studio and record. So those little things and having that organization in this case was so, so helpful. And I mean, it just really, really shows what great organization can do. So, thank you, J.
J. Xander:Oh, my pleasure. But yeah, like, I think one big takeaway for people trying to collaborate more remotely is even if you can't get to something at a certain point in time, it's just like, let your collaborator or people you're working with know. Something as simple as, I'm working on it, I'll get back to you soon. It's really powerful and like reassuring to the person because it lets them know like, oh, I'm not wasting my time. You know what I mean? It's like the little things sometimes.
Nina:I've actually like not collaborated with a person again because they didn't do me that courtesy of like, things got out of hand. I'm so sorry. Like things got really busy in my studio. This is actually what a friend of mine did this weekend. She like emailed me three days later. She's like, Oh my god, like things just exploded. Like my life exploded. I'm so sorry. And I was like, I figured because she's really reliable, but this other collaborator, I mean, it took us forever to get something done. And finally I was like, I'm not working on this anymore with you. Like I'm, you can reach out to me, but I'm not going to keep putting this out because there are just some things that are just good manners, right? Like Dito, like what do you really appreciate from collaborators in just those like little things?
Dito:I think, for me, the biggest thing is just being respectful of each other's times, and, I mean, this also goes for in person collaboration too, like, if we are, I'm all for, like, having fun and, you know, debriefing and getting to know people past the music, but also like we are there to collaborate. Essentially we're coming to work, we're coming prepared, and it's that lack of preparation or lack of urgency that I would say is just really unprofessional.
Nina:Yeah, so that's the kind of stuff that makes me crazy. So I recently did a writing retreat. And I came out of it with two songs, and they were really good, and they're finally, like, getting produced and all of this stuff. A couple months before I went, a friend of mine had gone on a writing retreat in the same area of the country, completely different retreat. It was just, and that's what actually inspired me to go on this one. And I asked them when they got back, I was like, Did you write any songs? And they were like, no. You literally flew across the country. To like how, first of all, how much did that cost to retreat a songwriting retreat? And you didn't come out with a song? Like, did you, what did you guys do? It's like, oh, we just played a bunch of instruments in the studio. You can do that at home like,
J. Xander:So you, you spent all that money to go to an instrument petting zoo, is what you're saying?
Nina:Basically, yes. I was like,
J. Xander:that's wild.
Nina:Never writing with you, like you're a good friend, but never writing with you, filing that away.
J. Xander:Yeah, I think that goes back to like, at the end of the day, you want to walk away with your song, right? Like the, at least, like the big idea. Yeah. Yeah,
Nina:Or you feel like you're on a good path. You know, I, that's something that I always want to do. I always want to sum up what's happened at the end of the session and be like, okay, do we all feel like we've at least accomplished something here? Like, do we feel like we're on the same page? Do we feel like we can work on this remotely if we're not even together? You know, can we continue to, to write this or come up with melody ideas and send them to each other? Do we feel like we have a good grasp on things? So I think that's like really important. I could not believe, like, no, I didn't write a song at a songwriting retreat. Did you, like, have lectures? Was it, like, an informational thing? Right? No, no, we were just in the studio playing instruments. It made me crazy.
J. Xander:You know, I also participate in this one thing called Warrior Music Foundation, where they hire professional songwriters to go out and help veterans kind of tell their stories, and they give us two days of Maybe like seven hours each and by the end of it It's like you have to perform the song in front of everybody else. So it that sounds really nerve wracking but I really appreciate doing it because it just kind of helps me at faster at the craft itself. And sometimes you know, you're working with this person that you've never met before, but even then that's, that's extremely beneficial and in that sometimes it's good to just get an idea down and finish it as quickly as you can. You can always come back to something and polish it later, but you have to have, you have to have the bones first.
Dito:That is so cool though, I mean like. It just, it reminds me of those like, okay class, by the end of this class we're gonna have like, you know, an eight measure phrase or something, or come up with, I want you to come up with like four different chord progressions that you're going to perform by the end of this class. Go. Kind of like, almost forcing creativity is a really bad way to put it, but Making, forcing yourself to think methodically about something that you might not think methodically about helps not only get the project done faster, but also it helps you figure out how you Think how you operate in the studio.
Nina:I feel like exercises like that are so good whether you come out with something or not because like you said they do tell you how you think. And you might not come out with a perfect song. You might not come out with a like a Hot 100 hit. But you might use that chord progression a couple months later in something different I recently just used a lyric that I wrote three years ago in a song right. Like you never, and that was the song that I wrote three years ago was a throwaway song. It was just an exercise, but I, I remember this lyric, it stuck with me and, and now it's, it's in, it's in my album project. So stuff like that, you never know what you're going to reuse. You never know what you're going to come up with. Speaking of skills and learning, what do you guys feel like you learned from making this song together? What kind of takeaways do you have from working on the track?
J. Xander:So for me, this was really like an exercise in going back to like the melody of things. Because I'm not the strongest at writing in Spanish either. That's something that I've gotten a lot better at just through sheer will of forcing myself to. Because it just gives me more appeal to a different market, and I think that's super important to think about when you're an artist. But it really let me Do that and also still force myself to write a song in the way that I normally would Structurally speaking because one of the things I really appreciate about our songs is that it's still if you look at like the writing in The boxes method, you know, like it's a pop song in Spanish. That's just supposed to be fun It still does that right it starts off with meeting somebody at a bar kind of getting whisked away. And then my verse is like, right before you get into the bedroom kind of thing. So that, that was helpful too in realizing that no matter how simple your song is, there can still be some buildup to it. And there should be so that it feels more important by the, by the time you get to the second and third chorus.
Dito:To me, it informed a different perspective on songwriting. I'm not gonna lie. When J originally reached out to me, and I noticed, like, he was getting his master's in songwriting from Berklee. I was really intimidated, in a good way, and I was, like, up for the challenge, and I think it really helped me, like I said, figure out the way that I operate when it comes to songwriting, and that different perspective is something that I take with me every time I collaborate with someone else as well.
Nina:Yeah, I love watching other people unpack songs or just give me the reason behind their idea because I feel like it informs my moves, like moving on. I, I love. I just love talking about creativity. So this is really, this is my favorite, this right here. So what advice can you share with other songwriters that you learned by working on this song? Like what like specific things would you like to tell our audience who are mostly songwriters?
J. Xander:I think that for me the mark of like when I'm really happy with something that I've done lyrically and just in terms of like the song itself is can I get a visual to this song in my head. So I feel like when I hear this song I picture so many different things. I picture like somebody at a bar, I picture just driving really late night at DC cause that's just always a crazy like weird city to drive through because it's so hectic. And also I picture weird things like that scene in The Dark Knight when like the Joker is like sticking his head out of the window. I don't know why that, that visual appears to me when I hear like part of our song, but I feel like that's. generally the mark of like what you want to go for, especially like with good lyrics, is like, can you picture yourself in this song? Can you picture like a visual story behind it? Not like an actual narrative, but just what visuals does this song actually bring about for you? And I feel like once you've hit that, you've stumbled upon like a pretty good idea. A vibe.
Nina:I love that. Dito, what about you?
Dito:I'd say the biggest takeaway for any songwriters out there that are listening is just try something new and get out of your comfort zone and, I mean, hey, if you're learning German, why don't you go write a song in German? I mean, you know, you don't have to release it to the world, but it's something that like you are strengthening that muscle within you, and it's something that's ultimately going to make you a way better songwriter and a way better storyteller than just sticking to your typical, like, I'm gonna write an A, B, A, B, you know, song. I think that's, that's what this song is to me, is getting out of my comfort zone, um, working on a genre that I would not have otherwise. Yeah, it's a really great opportunity.
Nina:Comfort zones are just that, they're so comforting, but are you really learning in them, right? We have to challenge ourselves in order to keep creating really good art, I think is the big takeaway from, from this whole episode of the podcast. So Dito, this is our final question. It's a question that we torture all artists with, and it is, what is a song that changed your life?
Dito:So I am a classically trained trumpet player by trade. That was my principal instrument, and it's right there in the background. So there's this work by Elgar, and it's Suspiri Opus 870. And for me, that song just kind of helps me describe what the phase of life that I was going through and it was so interesting to have a non verbal song describe how I was feeling on the inside and I'm very big into like orchestration and um, instrumentation and motifs and leitmotifs and all of that when it comes to actual like, you know, pop songwriting or anything like that but This song, to me, serves as a reminder that through all the questions, through all of the yearning, life goes on, and everything resolves, you know? Like, I don't know, it's just like, go out and listen to it, everyone has different perspectives on music, but This really just felt like a sigh of relief. No pun intended.
Nina:I love that. J, this is a question that you have dodged so far, and now it's your turn to answer. I, I lob it to you. What is a song that has changed your life?
J. Xander:So, for me, I don't know what it is about this song, but I think it has to be Dog Days Are Over by Florence and the Machine because it is, it's such a weird song that just does so many things that you'd never expect it to do, and it almost feels like a song that is, it's such high art that it feels like it's above genre in a way, like sure you can call it indie rock or whatever the hell you want, but it's really so much more than that, right? It's and just her voice and everything is in that song is so moving and powerful that it really, I want to say it was the first like non classical song that kind of taught me that. Other genres of music can be so much more than just like, pop, billboard, radio, cause when I was in, when I was like 18 ish, I kinda had this misconception that music that was being put out in the world was either like, just straight up classical, or Britney Spears and all the the pop artists right there was like no in between or kind of anything else and this kind of dispelled that false dichotomy for me and showed me that music can be something else. It can be weird. It can be playful It can be epically huge. So it's the song I come back to anytime. I'm feeling like really really depressed Or Dreams by Fleetwood Mac. One of those two. So if I'm listening to that, it means I'm in a bad mood.
Nina:That's such a great song, because it really, it's so transcendent in that it means something different to every single person who has listened to it. The Dog Days Are Over, specifically. Dreams, we all know what it's about. But, I mean, it's so ethereal, and it's Stevie Nicks. My love, my life, my love. But Dog Days Are Over. Like every person I know has a different interpretation of it based on what they have personally been through. And I find that fascinating. Like you're right. It does, it does transcend genre to everyone who listens to it. It's also a song that everyone knows.
Dito:Right.
Nina:For how like lyrically odd it is for like Florence and the Machine specifically as a brand. That's, that's pretty. Out of the ordinary. Like, songs like that don't typically break through the way that they did. And man, she must have made a buck on sync, too, because that song was everywhere.
J. Xander:I was just gonna say, it was like on Eat, Pray, Love and all those white lady movies where they go discover themselves. It was everywhere.
Nina:At the climax, she has to run for whatever reason.
Dito:Barefoot. Don't forget the barefoot.
Nina:Barefoot. She has to run barefoot. That's exactly it. Through a field in Tuscany. Alright, you guys, do you have any final words to our listeners for the episode?
Dito:Keep on creating, even if it's uncomfortable.
J. Xander:Yeah, don't be afraid to try something different or try something weird. You might end up liking what you do, so.
Nina:I love it. Well, our final segment is always our Playback Pick of the Week. Our unanimous Playback Pick of the Week is obviously En Las Sombras, your new song. So everybody go out, like it, stream it. It is streaming everywhere, every platform that you could use. Um, reach out to the artists on social media. Please give them compliments, tell them you love it. Thank you guys so much for coming on and talking about this incredible collaboration and this amazing song. I think that's it for the week unless you guys have any last words. No?
J. Xander:Go out and write a good song.
Nina:Yep. All right guys, go out and create some good in the world. We will see you next episode. That's all from us.
Dito:Bye.
