Dive into the glitz, glamour, and occasional surprises of the Grammy Awards with our latest podcast episode! Join hosts J. Xander and Nina Blu as they dissect the music industry's biggest night with humor, wit, and a touch of friendly rivalry.
In this episode, J astounds us all with his uncanny knack for predicting most of the major category winners, leaving poor Nina in a state of disbelief (and perhaps a touch of envy!). From Best New Artist to Album of the Year, we break down the jaw-dropping moments, and unexpected wins.
Tune in for J's victory lap as he hilariously recounts his triumphant predictions while Nina gracefully accepts defeat (with a side of playful banter, of course!). Whether you're a die-hard music fan or just love a good laugh, this episode is guaranteed to entertain.
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Dive into the glitz, glamour, and occasional surprises of the Grammy Awards with our latest podcast episode! Join hosts J. Xander and Nina Blu as they dissect the music industry's biggest night with humor, wit, and a touch of friendly rivalry.
In this episode, J astounds us all with his uncanny knack for predicting most of the major category winners, leaving poor Nina in a state of disbelief (and perhaps a touch of envy!). From Best New Artist to Album of the Year, we break down the jaw-dropping moments, and unexpected wins.
Tune in for J's victory lap as he hilariously recounts his triumphant predictions while Nina gracefully accepts defeat (with a side of playful banter, of course!). Whether you're a die-hard music fan or just love a good laugh, this episode is guaranteed to entertain.
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Watch the Video Podcast on YouTube
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Welcome to Playback, the podcast all about what's hot and trending in music right now. I'm singer songwriter Nina Blu.
J. Xander:And I am singer songwriter producer J. Xander.
Nina:This is season two, the opening episode, and we are reviewing our Grammy picks for the 2023 Grammys.
J. Xander:Nina lost, y'all. She lost.
Nina:Oh, God. So bad. Listen, I won the big one. That's the one that I got.
J. Xander:Yeah, we'll talk about it.
Nina:Oh my gosh, we'll get into it. J, do you have any like general comments about the Grammys?
J. Xander:I actually liked this year's show. I thought it was more entertaining than, like, recent shows. I thought the performances were really good. I was entertained through most of it, and happy cuz most of my picks won. So there's that.
Nina:Yeah, I was um, I watched them later So I already knew that I had lost big time by the time I was watching the awards So I wasn't like waiting with bated breath to find out. I just wanna say Trevor Noah is such a good host like you can tell he's really tapped into the conversations around pop music. He's funny but he doesn't, like, hit below the belt. All of his jokes are really flattering to the people that are nominated, and I just, like, I really appreciate that. Apparently, there are all these stories about how everyone was late to the awards because of the rain, and he had to stall.
J. Xander:There were floods out there. Yeah, it was like a flash flood warning, I believe.
Nina:So, one of the guys he worked with on the Grammys tells the story of how they got Mariah Carey to the Grammys to present the award to Miley Cyrus, the opening award, and they had to literally, like, take a golf cart out onto the freeway, cover Mariah Carey in, like, a bubble of umbrellas, And just, speed to the award show, which is hilarious, like I, I, I want video of that so badly because I feel like Mariah Carey would just be cracking jokes the whole time.
J. Xander:She has a very interesting sense of humor.
Nina:She does.
J. Xander:I enjoy it.
Nina:We love it. Yeah. She presented the award to Miley. Miley got her first Grammy and also crushed her performance and was hilarious about it. I was so happy for her.
J. Xander:Yeah, I like that it wasn't like an overly, it, this show didn't seem like that serious in tone for me, if that makes sense. Like, it just wasn't as stuffy as you would normally expect award shows like this to be. Like, particularly this performance.
Nina:This was a really lighthearted year and I appreciated that.
J. Xander:I do too.
Nina:And Miley's, like, laughing at herself, she's having a good time. I posted on TikTok, she really took the go back until you hate him method all the way to the Grammys. Which is hilarious. We all know who she's talking about, and now she's got a Grammy about it.
J. Xander:Yeah. But one thing I like about this song is that, like, we do know who she's talking about, but even if we didn't the song still works. Right? Because it's, like, just vague enough to the point where you're not You as a listener don't feel isolated by it. I mean, it's something everybody's dealt with before once you heard once you hit like a certain age, right? But like the concept itself of just flowers in general and her as a woman being able to just you know This doesn't mean anything to me. I can get it myself That's very smart. That's like a very interesting way to frame this post breakup kind of song it and it's really easy to Overdo that kind of song in a cliche way, but I think you know this song avoids it
Nina:I think it was the right song for the right moment too because it has that like disco feel to it and we were in the year of the Barbie movie which had Peloton pop disco as part of its soundtrack. Dua Lipa had just come out of her disco era and it was familiar enough to so many generations and it was also catchy enough and it had this great empowering message. I think it was the right song at the right moment, especially for her. And she sings the shit out of it.
J. Xander:Yeah, that's a really good point. I feel like the Grammys love that kind of thing. Like throwback to like, Funk or. Disco especially. I don't know why. It seems to do really well there. Like the, um, Bruno Mars album that won album of the year a couple years ago, like had a lot of that. Daft Punk as well. As future y as they sound, they incorporate a lot. of that into their sound when they want. Into their future y sound, yeah. Like this very vintage, it's very cool because it's like a fusion of old meets new. So it does, like you were saying, kind of bridge that generational gap.
Nina:Which if you look at like the Grammy voting body, they are older and we are all prone to nostalgia, especially the older that we get. So speaking of throwbacks, this was really a year of throwbacks. The Tracy Chapman performance with Luke Combs, because he, you and I talked about this, he spent a number of weeks at the top of the Billboard Hot 100 with his cover.
J. Xander:Mm hmm.
Nina:I think this is one of the best songs ever.
J. Xander:Yeah, I think this is my favorite performance of the night.
Nina:It was definitely mine, too. Joni Mitchell had me tearing up for sure, but I think that was. It was more because when are we going to see Joni Mitchell perform again? I mean, honestly, she's, she's getting up. And so that was, it was a really beautiful performance, but this was probably my favorite. Luke Combs did a really good job of setting it up and explaining what the song meant to him and why, um, and I love how many people thought that Luke Combs had written this song.
J. Xander:I thought those were memes at a certain point, but. It wouldn't surprise me. Like, do you remember when 4 or 5 Seconds came out with Kanye, and people were like, Hey, this Paul McCartney guy is gonna blow the fuck up. And it was so cringy, because I legitimately could not tell. Like, are these people serious? That's so funny to me.
Nina:Or, um, the teenage girls who thought that John Mayer wrote Free Fallin
J. Xander:Oh, that's so sad.
Nina:Once upon a time.
J. Xander:Poor things.
Nina:One of the categories that I wanted to touch on was Best Musica Urbana Album. Carol G won for that, which was a really big win for her. I was really happy for her, but I did kind of wish that Data won, because you and I have talked about Tainy's album. Like all last year.
J. Xander:Oh, yeah. Um, I don't know I've that album The Tainy album is just like more of my aesthetic. It's just for me. It's it's slightly. I don't know. It's edgier, but I can see Why they made the decision they did also so yeah good for her.
Nina:I am really happy for her. SZA's performance Absolutely killed. I loved it.
J. Xander:Yeah, and you know, it's funny one thing that One of the, like, TikToks I love is when people sit down and actually, like, pay attention to the lyrics of Snooze. Because it's not like a cutesy, let's just lay down together and do stuff. Like, it all kind of fits together with Kill Bill, if you really think about it. They're basically, she's basically saying, yeah, I'll Fuck bitches up with you like let's go do crimes together. That's the kind of romance that she's talking about.
Nina:I love that for her. It was such a good performance and you could tell like she's singing live and like it she just absolutely killed it. Something that cracked me up was Phoebe Bridger's face while this one dancer was doing all this sword work like on the table. Yeah from snooze Like, uh, to Kill Bill. That was one of the funniest things I've ever seen was just Phoebe Bridgers. Totally in awe. Okay, so for the first award that we talked about, it was Record of the Year. You predicted that Flowers would win, and you were absolutely correct. I predicted What Was I Made For? And then we switched for song of the year. You predicted what was I made for and I predicted flowers. And so you got the order absolutely correct.
J. Xander:I'm not gonna lie, I re listened to our predictions episode a couple days ago just so you wouldn't try any sneaky stuff. Um, and I'm not gonna lie, like even in the moment and listening back to it I was like I don't really understand what she was thinking there, because like, what was I made for is a really, really beautiful well constructed song, but the production is very kind of bare to its benefits, so I was like, I don't, I just, for me, I was like, I don't see this winning, like, record of the year, because record really is about, like, the whole sonic soundscape, right? And going back to, like, Flowers, which, Like I said, the Academy really loves this kind of throwback sound, which. Flowers absolutely has and just like it nails its overall aesthetic. So that's kind of why I predicted the way that I did.
Nina:Yeah. The reason why I predicted the way that I did, I knew that they were going to award flowers something. Yeah. And I knew that they were going to award What Was I Made For something. Because I mean, both songs deserved a Grammy award this year. Absolutely. My point was that, uh, Phineas and Billie Eilish are really more known as producers. And sometimes the Academy just does weird things like that. Because they're so well known for their production style and, and what they incorporate into it. But no, you were, you were dead on. I was like, what if the Grammys does something really weird? And I was not rewarded by that at all.
J. Xander:Took a chance and it did not, not pay off.
Nina:No, it did not.
J. Xander:But you know what? If, if, um, What Was I Made For it? Like, if it wasn't a contender, I feel like Flowers also would have probably won song of the year.
Nina:Yeah, it probably would have swept. I did really like the John Batiste song. He's kind of a Grammy darling, but I don't think he won big this year, or at least not in any of the major categories.
J. Xander:I saw, yeah, and just adding to that, I saw one of, this comment made me so sad. I think it was like on Instagram. Somebody was like, we're really living in the timeline where Lana's not gonna win a Grammy, huh? Like, that's so sad.
Nina:Oh, I was gonna save that for the end. That we talk about that. Cause that's one of the big controversies of the night.
J. Xander:We can get, yeah. We'll,
Nina:We'll get into the controversies after we get into the awards.
J. Xander:Yeah, I am not happy about that.
Nina:I wasn't either. Yeah. Okay, so songwriter of the year, neither of us was correct. Your wish was Shane McNally, McAnally? I don't know how to say it.
J. Xander:I always get it wrong too.
Nina:The prediction was Justin Tranter. I both wished for and predicted Justin Tranter. Neither of us correct. It went to Tobias Jesso Jr., which was a really big surprise.
J. Xander:That's kind of sad that, like, we're, that's our whole thing as songwriters. And we didn't, you know, get this one. But I did, I did do some research on the winner also and he wrote Icy by Kim Petras, which is like one of my probably top three songs from her. So I was like, okay, I can see it, but I don't know like what he did throughout the course of the year. So even with that in mind, I'm like, I don't think I could have guessed based on, you know.
Nina:Yeah, um, they did list his body of work when I was like looking it up and I was quite impressed by it because it is the body of work that you do within a year is the consideration for the category. This is a brand new category honoring songwriters. It's odd that we didn't have it for years and years and years. For those of you who don't know, we went over this in the predictions episode a little bit, but there are kind of two categories of awards at the Grammys. It's that for recording and that for like writing, which is kind of how we split everything in the industry. It's kind of like it's either recording or it's publishing, right? It's the craft. So, we finally have something that's awarding the craft of songwriting. And so it's really hard to predict this award because we just, we haven't seen a lot of people win it yet.
J. Xander:But also like the, their bodies of work that like were nominated were more so, I don't feel like a lot of them were comprised of like single material. If that makes sense. Like some of them were, a lot of them were deep cuts.
Nina:Or album tracks. Yeah.
J. Xander:Yeah. So it's like, unless you're listening to music just all the time, which I mean, Nina and I are, but you know, nobody can listen to everything that comes out all the time. Um, it's hard to keep up with that kind of stuff.
Nina:Yeah, and that's a an award that's really difficult to keep up with because songwriters are really more all over the place, whereas producers are usually like on a project.
J. Xander:Yeah, to have like, that's a really good point to have like a Definitive sound for the album.
Nina:Yeah, so like, a producer will have multiple albums, like Jack Antonoff, who won for his multiple albums this year, which you also predicted. He won producer of the year, and so that's a little bit easier to like, listen, whereas songwriters might have like, three credits on one album, and then two credits on another, and then one over here, and three over there. Like, songwriters, we're just a little more all over the place. Um, just based on what gets placed, what feels good for an artist, etc. Whereas like producers, they're on the project like start to finish usually.
J. Xander:Yeah, but shout out to Justin Tranter for hosting the. I don't remember what it's called. It's like the pre Grammys, whatever they are.
Nina:Yes!
J. Xander:Where like they host, they give out like most of the engineering and sort of background awards. Um, the Unsung Hero Awards, as I like to call them, like before the actual show.
Nina:Yeah, that's exactly what I'm going to start calling it, the Unsung Hero Awards. That's great. Justin Tranter, I'm so impressed with him, and he was specifically asked about like, why songwriter of the year is an important category. His answer was fantastic. I've started following him on TikTok. He's
J. Xander:What did he say?
Nina:Um, I don't remember. I remember listening to his comments, and he was just talking about like, how important songwriters are to the industry and how they go under the radar and how it's really important to hold up the craft of songwriting because like the elements of what make a good song are kind of universal. I just really appreciated his comments. He seems like a real class act and I just love him for it.
J. Xander:You know, one thing I want to touch on real quick cause, for me, I don't know about you, Nina, but like, I didn't find out until like, kind of later in life that a lot of singers that like, I would listen to like, weren't writing their own songs. I just always assumed that they'd at least have a part and some of them don't even do that. So that's why songwriters are like, super important. But also, I saw on TikTok, this girl said something along the lines of, maybe we need to get back to the point where songwriters are writing and the pop singers are doing their roles. Like the parts are getting kind of equally distributed.
Nina:I can't believe you didn't send me that video on TikTok.
J. Xander:I should have. I should have. Yeah and it's like, she makes a really good point where she's like, we don't always have to be a jack of all trades. It's okay.
Nina:If you have a good song idea, that's one thing. But, you know, like, we've been told stories of artists who because of this kind of bias, feel the need to, like, insert something into a song that doesn't need to be there for the sake of getting songwriting credit.
J. Xander:Yeah.
Nina:Which annoys me. Like, if you like the song, sing it. Um, and, and if you have a great idea for it, like, epic, awesome. I'm very meta about collaboration, as, as you know, but, um, yeah, I feel that way. Like, not every pop star needs to be writing. I think we need to do away with the shame of a popstar didn't write every single song. I don't know really where that came from, why it's a requirement for a good singer to also be a good songwriter. It very much annoys me. Yeah. This whole, like, craze of singer songwriters that's been going on. When it's like, people don't understand, most songs are a collaborative effort. People, for some reason, want an artist to like, sit alone in a room and come up with something, like, that's not That's not cool.
J. Xander:Yeah.
Nina:I hate doing that. And I'm a songwriter.
J. Xander:Yeah. Like, I don't know. It, I think it stems from like a lot of different things. It's like they'll see people like Taylor Swift or Adele and they're like, Oh, they could do it. Why can't I? But not realizing that what they're doing took like years and years and years to like kind of craft.
Nina:Taylor Swift was in a development program from the time she was 15.
J. Xander:Right. Um, and she had, uh, there was like a prolific songwriter she was working with for a while. Liz something? Liz Rose? Yeah. I don't remember her name but like a big name like kind of helping her along the way. Um, and Adele also went to like a pretty prestigious art school out in the UK. So it's like she's been honing her craft for years before anybody knew who she was.
Nina:Ed Sheeran too. Ed Sheeran went to a really, really good as well
J. Xander:Okay Yeah, and also like the label independent artists I think is a little misleading nowadays. It makes you feel like you have to do everything or you're not technically an independent artist. Even though it doesn't work that way.
Nina:There's just such odd expectations around art.Like, and it's, it's really bizarre, and you and I, I think, are trying to do a good job of battling that. But like, even Taylor Swift, like, she has writing credits on her album, for other people, like, she writes with other people, everyone writes with other people. That's the best way to write a good song, like, sometimes you just need somebody else's ear on it.
J. Xander:And, I, yeah, and I can't think of too many other examples other than one, but like, I really like when Taylor was, She's supposedly a ghostwriter on that one Rihanna song with, uh, Calvin Harris.
Nina:Oh, not supposedly. She recorded the demo.
J. Xander:Yeah, okay. Yeah, this is what you came for, right? Yeah. Yeah, and I thought that worked really well. Like, I don't know how much, how often she, she does that, where she, like, just writes for other people also.
Nina:Quite often, uh, or she used to. More. I don't know. Um, but she wrote, like, several country songs. Um, back in the day that got placed, I think with like Lady A and some people I'd have to look, I can't remember. But yeah, sometimes you write a song and then you look at it and you're like, I'm not the right person for this. Or my audience isn't the right audience for this. And so you give it to someone who maybe is, they have the right audience or they have the right voice or they have the right perspective to sing from. Um, and, and that's okay. And I wish we were, as a society, a little better about that. I also have a rant about singers and actors, and why can't we just have an actor lip sync to a singer in a movie? If, like, if that actor is the right person for the part, go find the right voice. Then two people get paid for one job. Love it. Instead of me listening to a really poor auto tuned actor.
J. Xander:That's, that's the worst.
Nina:It is. I'd really rather, like, if I'm watching a movie musical, I've already suspended reality anyway to a certain degree because people don't just burst out in song unless you go to music school.
J. Xander:Mm hmm.
Nina:And they don't just narrate their feelings in song. Um. So, you're already suspending reality, just, just have the actor lip sync, go, go find a singer, pay them well, credit them, that's all I care about, like, I, just, it's so, it's so annoys me, I hate that we don't do that anymore.
J. Xander:But anyway, the point of that rant was, don't be afraid to collaborate, and do, you know, that way you can do what you actually feel comfortable and like doing.
Nina:Exactly, exactly. And don't be afraid to, you know, if someone approaches you with a song, take it.
J. Xander:You never know.
Nina:Yeah, you never know. Try new things. Okay, Producer of the Year, I predicted Daniel Nigro because I didn't think that they were going to give it to Jack Antonoff.
J. Xander:She didn't believe in you, Jack. That's what she's saying. Um,
Nina:That was my wish. My wish was Jack Antonoff, but I thought they were going to give it to Daniel Nigro. Because I thought that they were going to award Olivia Rodrigo and like this, um, what was it wasn't sour this year. It was that's that's that's right. I thought they were gonna Like, award it in some capacity, that project, um, and then the more I thought about it because she didn't take home any Grammys for G. U. T. S.
J. Xander:Really? I thought, damn, I thought she got at least something.
Nina:No, she didn't win anything, and people were talking about, like, her face throughout the night, and they're like, oh, it's because she hates Taylor Swift. I was like, no, I think it's because she's not winning, um, for her project. The more I thought about it, the more sour was such a moment, pop culture wise, and G. U. T. kind of fell short of that, the way sophomore albums often do.
J. Xander:You know what it is, cause I really thought about I don't know why, like, I randomly was thinking about that for a while, even before we had the Grammys episode, but, like, For me, the reason that a lot of the songs on Sour really worked is because she had a really strong concept for all of those singles, like Driver's License and Deja Vu, and there was one other, I'm not, I'm not remembering, but like, those are really clever and interesting kind of ways to frame a song, whereas I feel like G.U.T.S. was a lot more like, Clever little catchphrases, or the concept itself, it kind of felt like it still needed more fine tuning, like Vampire. Like that song for me, even though it's a, it's a good song, it's still, for me, it feels like a draft of a great song.
Nina:We talked about this, like in one of our earlier episodes, that's exactly how I feel about that song, because we were talking about there's so much fun language that comes with it. Like, vampire. And yet, um, you, you rhymed famefucker with bloodsucker. Like, there are so many other things that you could have done here. That didn't involve, you know, having to come up with something else, because you can't use that word in pop radio. Which is something for songwriters to think of. Like, I very rarely curse in my songs, even though I tend to curse like a sailor in real life. Because, I just, I don't want to deal with that. I don't want to deal with having it muted or anything like that. It's, I don't know. It's
J. Xander:I feel exactly the same way. Mostly because
Nina:In pop music, you don't need it. Like, there are certain genres where it works. But pop music, like, come on, you're trying to get radio.
J. Xander:Yeah, it's like, it works really well in, like, the mature genres like R& B and hip hop, you're right. But like, I don't know, for pop stuff, it's like, you want a wide audience to be able to sing along with it, like, as much as possible. That's kind of the whole point, right? So it's like, why would you I don't know. I just feel like there's better language.
Nina:You also screw your sync chances with that. Like, people, they don't want to have, like, a song that's bleeped out in the background of a commercial or in the background of a movie. Like, you just screw yourself on sync opportunities, so you're losing money a lot of times if you're writing a pop song with a curse word. Um. Yeah. Or have like a clever way of covering it, like something that's funny, right? Because I've heard that before, where it sounds like the singer is gonna curse, but then something happens, and it's, that's one of my like favorite songwriting tropes. I've used it myself. You're expecting a curse word coming up, and then it's just not there, or it's something else. It makes me laugh every time. Um, but yeah, that project was really unrewarded. I might just be too into like pop TikTok, that I thought Daniel Nigro was going to win, especially for the rise and fall of Midwestern Princess, I believe is the name of the album and that's Chapel Roan. And I mean, she's just now starting to really get some notoriety for that project in like kind of mainstream. I think I just, I don't know, I discovered her on TikTok and I, I love her and I thought the album was incredible.
J. Xander:Oh cool.
Nina:So I thought they were gonna try and like slyly award that but no, Jack Antonoff won three years in a row and well deserved. I think he needs to go on vacation next year so somebody else has a chance of winning. But considering he's on the Taylor Swift project that she announced. I think he's gonna win four years in a row.
J. Xander:Oh yeah, we can talk about that later too.
Nina:We'll get into the controversies. All right, best new artist. I'm gonna give myself half credit because I was wishing for Victoria Monet, but I didn't think that they were gonna give it to her. You were like, they're absolutely gonna give it to her. It's about time.
J. Xander:You know what's funny is that when we were doing the list, I fully thought for both Jack and Victoria, I was gonna be wrong, but I was like, I don't care. I'm picking them for both want and who I think will win. I'm going all in.
Nina:I, I love that she won. I loved her acceptance speech. She was so floored by it. She looked stunning. She looked so beautiful. Like her dress, everything, top to bottom. She looked amazing. I'm so happy for her. She's so incredible. And she talked about like I've been here for 10 years. Like I've been working so hard for 10 years and people keep talking about that. I love how people online were like, who is she? And it's like, how do you, are you joking? Like. Are you, like, no, Seven Rings was written by her. Like, she's an incredible writer. She's amazing.
J. Xander:A lot of the greats, or like, household names started off that way. Especially like in the 2000s, Katy Perry and Bruno Mars, Jessie J, they all started off writing for other people. So it's just like she's, you know, on a similar path. Yeah, I really like that. For me, this was like the best case scenario in that, like, a lot of the artists, no disrespect to them, were like a lot younger. Um, I believe, yeah, and it's just like it proves that you don't have to start a music career in your 20s to necessarily be successful. It kind of, you know, dispels that myth.
Nina:Yeah, that made me really happy, um, and we need more of that, honestly, because there is a lot of ageism in the industry, and it's like, no, like, becoming a really good songwriter takes time, you know, like, you have to, you have to learn the craft, etc. Victoria Monet is so good, um, just on every level. I love her voice, I love her performance. And she's a great writer on top of all of it. So I hope her next album it, I think, I hope that this award gives her enough notoriety that she gets to work with some really, really big names and we just get an absolute banger of a next album.
J. Xander:I'd really like to hear, uh, either her, even both, maybe her and like SZA or Megan Thee Stallion. Beyonce, like one of those kind of artists. I feel like that would be a fire track.
Nina:Oh my god, I'd pass out probably. Alright, the final and biggest award of the night, Album of the Year. J, do you want to touch on why Album of the Year is such a big award?
J. Xander:Well, it's like the equivalent of Best Picture, right? It's the one that kind of Is the strongest body of work, supposedly, the year that, you know, that particular Grammys is happening. Um, yeah, I mean, that's the best way I can put it. I don't know if you have a different definition for it.
Nina:No, I think that's the best way to describe it to people is, I mean, and it is actually one of the few awards that looks at the recording process as well as the craft and it pulls it all together. It looks at all of the collaborators. Everyone who's been on the project, etc. Um, so, my wish was the record, Boy Genius. They did win big in lesser categories. Your wish was Lana. And actually, the more I thought about it after that episode, I was hoping for Lana too. Like, it's, it's past time. Let's get into the controversy. Let's talk about it. Lana Del Rey deserves a fucking Grammy.
J. Xander:She absolutely does. I mean, this is just, again, this is preposterous. Like, I said it on the last episode, but again, she's on three, three of these albums. It's like, why is she not rewarded yet? And did you see that bullshit comment that some, that leaked from like one of the voters before saying that they couldn't take her seriously after her SNL performance?
Nina:Are you fucking kidding?
J. Xander:You know, like, it was a big thing on TikTok for a while, and I was like, I am Lana Stan, and I don't even remember that performance. So, the fact that you're like, holding that against her over a decade later, that's crazy.
Nina:That was one of her first major performances. Like, a lot of people botched one of their first major performances. Cause a lot of times, like, you get psyched out. It just happens, right? Like, performance anxiety is real. And SNL? That's millions of people, man. And if you get too in your head about it, you're going to freak out. And I'm not saying that's what happened, but I'm saying that's what could have happened. But it kind of made her go viral and expose more people to her music, so it was kind of a moment for her career. It's, it's one of those, like, is, is there any such thing as bad press kind of moments? I mean, Billie Eilish has said, Lana raised us. How many female artists are inspired by what Lana Del Rey does. Like, it's, it's out of this world. She is one of those artists that's usually your favorite artist's favorite artist, and she has an incredible body of work.
J. Xander:Yeah.
Nina:Uh, I don't know. I actually don't know a single female songwriter my age or younger who does not list Lana Del Rey as, as an influence.
J. Xander:Even the guys I've worked with. Like Finneas. Um, he used video games, it was either video games or Born to Die as like the reference track for Ocean Eyes, when he and Billy were making that. And even, my friend Dito and I, when we were writing our song that's out now, that was like a big reference point for us just like what we wanted to go for sonically and aesthetically like we want something kind of spooky Very like rich in textures like Lana. So yeah, she's she's everywhere whether you think so or not.
Nina:I mean, it's It's upsetting that she didn't at least win in a lower category. It's really upsetting that they didn't award A& W, which is an incredible song. Which you had picked for a wish. It's past time, man. And it's just, I mean, we're at a point, it's ridiculous. So you predicted S. O. S. by SZA, which was a great prediction. She did win a lot that night. I forget how many Grammys she won that night. And it was, it was a big moment. I predicted Midnight's and that was the only thing that I got correct by Taylor Swift. I just thought
J. Xander:I'm not gonna lie, by the time we got to, to, I think Billie and them were like the last ones to win, I was like, damn, this is embarrassing. I hope Midnight's does win. Just so Nina can get a point.
Nina:Uh, I have 1. 5 points on the board. But so I thought they were going to award it just because Taylor Swift has had such a massive, massive year. It started with her literally sweeping the top 10 of the Billboard hot 100 when her album came out, which you and I were both in a class where we had to analyze the Hot 100 and everyone was talking about Taylor Swift that week. Which is really funny. I mean, it was such a big, big moment to watch an entire album sweep the Hot 100. I was like, they're, they're going to have to give it to her. Like, I mean, I don't, I don't see how they don't. There was a big controversy about Taylor Swift pulling Lana up on stage with her. I think Taylor Swift was trying to give Lana some flowers. Because everyone was kind of like, why hasn't Lana won a Grammy yet? And Taylor Swift made a point about that. She was like, I mean, one of the most incredible writers is here on stage with me. Taylor Swift got in some hot water for that. She also got in some hot water for announcing her new album. And I, I think the backlash is just ridiculous. I think everyone's just. You know how when you've hung out with someone for too many days in a row and they start to annoy you? I think that's how a lot of people are feeling about Taylor Swift right now. So like if you have a friend, like come stay with you and they've just overstayed their welcome and now the way that they breathe annoys you, like Taylor Swift has done things that aren't really that bad. And people are like, Crucify her. It's like, I think you just need to go to sleep. I think you just need to take a nap.
J. Xander:Yeah, it was like that. The other one I would add is like how she took that award from Celine. Like literally just how she received it.
Nina:She was told not to approach Celine Dion, because of what Celine Dion is like going through because of her medical issues. Or at least that's. Has been the response to the backlash. I don't know if that's true or not, or if people are just trying to save face, but Taylor Swift's team has had, you know, they've had a week, they've had a few weeks as a fact, between that and like the NFL BS, which is just ridiculous.
J. Xander:Oh yeah, that's really stupid and petty. But what do we think about, um, you're gonna have to help me out with this long fucking name that she has for her new project. What is it? Something Poets Department?
Nina:Yeah, um, I forget. Everyone's calling it the Dead Poets Society.
J. Xander:That's I was fighting so hard not to say that and you said it anyway. God.
Nina:I can tell you what date it comes out. It's April 19th. But, yeah, it's, um, oh, the Tortured Poets Department. And it's a play on her ex boyfriend, Joe Alwyn, who she spent four years of her life with. It's a play on, he's in a text group with a couple of other, like, well known actors. Not that he is one, but, I'm sorry, I can't help but be petty about this man. Um, cause I, I'm, I'm on team Taylor for this one. He's in like a text chain and it's called like the tortured man's department or something like that. So everyone online is talking about, you know how when you're in a relationship, you don't want your friends to know just how bad it is. So you don't tell them everything because you don't want them to hate your significant other. And then after they break up you get all of the tea of just how bad their significant other was to them. That's what this album is about to be.
J. Xander:No disrespect to her. I feel like that's a lot of her work. So it's just like, it's not, I mean, that's, in theory, that sounds really cool, but I don't, for her, I don't know if it's revolutionary.
Nina:If you look at the Reputation album, and you look at the Lover album, she's talking about how, how in love she is with this guy. Like he came around.
J. Xander:Oh, she was with him during that, like that era? Okay.
Nina:Yeah, exactly. And so if you really look at the Reputation album, it is a love album. Like, there are lots of love songs on it, in addition to, like, the reputation songs, which are fantastic. Um, and then Lover came out. Was it? Yeah, it was Lover came out after that. And then she had like Folklore and Evermore. Yeah, so she wrote a ton of love songs about him. And then with Midnights, everyone started to get suspicious about like, I don't think this relationship is doing too well. So, um, those suspicions were confirmed. And so people are like, Oh, we're gonna hear, we're gonna hear the truth about this man. Cuz I think Taylor Swift has also gotten to a place where she doesn't give a flying F about exposing shitty men. And I, and you know what? I'm, I'm on board. I'm here for it.
J. Xander:This is not related to that, but like, have you ever written a song like that before?
Nina:Where I just, I like don't care and I put all the details in?
J. Xander:I guess anything just like referencing an ex or just like past relationship where you're just like, yeah, I'm gonna get this all out in song.
Nina:Actually, um, I have only talked about this with my music video director when we were talking about Magnetic. But the opening line, it's the usual suspects. That's from a movie, Casablanca. The guy that I was talking about, we had watched that together. I had shown that to him for the first time. Like, this is my, one of my favorite movies of all time. So every once in a while I'll throw in some stuff like that if it fits really well. Um, but a lot of times it doesn't fit and I want other people to relate to the song so that kind of stops me from putting too much detail in. You know, there's that theory about, it was, we were told it by Pat Pattinson about like the furniture on set. Like, what do you really need to portray what you're trying to portray? And I think about that all the time. Like, what furniture do I need to get the message across? What set pieces do I really need?
J. Xander:That's fair. Yeah. I'm just curious because, like, that's such a songwriter trope, right? That's like a stereotype that we always get associated with. And I've, I don't think I've ever been able to write a song like that before.
Nina:I haven't either. I've always had reservations about it. Now that I'm like finishing up this, this project that I've been working on for the better part of two years and I'm thinking about what my next project is gonna be, I have a little less shame, honestly. Like, I might actually just start fucking calling people out.
J. Xander:Say their name.
Nina:Exactly, like, who's gonna know? Who cares? But actually, the pettiest song that I ever wrote, which is not out yet, it's not specific at all, but it is the pettiest song that I've ever written in my life, so It can, it can go both ways.
J. Xander:Mm hmm.
Nina:You can be petty and non specific.
J. Xander:No, that's very true. I feel like that's the way to go, if you're gonna do that kind of thing anyway, so.
Nina:It's also genre specific. Like, if you're writing a pop banger, usually you're not gonna put in a lot of detail. But if you're writing a slow, sad, singer songwriter y song
J. Xander:Like a country song.
Nina:Yeah, you might throw it in just because like melody lines tend to be longer and have more room for flexibility.
J. Xander:Mm hmm. Yeah. That's true.
Nina:So another big, big controversy of the night was Jay Z's speech when he accepted his award. He basically looked out at the crowd and said, a lot of you don't belong in the category. I was dead. I almost passed out. No comment?
J. Xander:Listen, I'm not saying, I'm not saying he's wrong.
Nina:Other years. I, I wasn't mad about this
J. Xander:year's nominees. Actually, yeah, no, you're right.
Nina:There was a lot of female and queer representation this year. And so if he was specifically talking about this year, you don't belong in the category I think that would have been shitty, but I think he was talking about the years that Beyonce did not win specifically. And yeah, there were several people who didn't belong in the category those years.
J. Xander:Yeah. Cause now that I think about it, this year is. Like nominees were pretty, pretty solid artists. Like whether you necessarily vibe with them or not, it's like they do what they do in their specific genre well, right? Yeah, you know, um, like you might not be the biggest Swiftie ever, but like she has a very good way of approaching the craft. And all her stuff is really well made because of both her and the care that her and her team have behind everything, right? So, um, same goes for all those artists, so.
Nina:The comparisons of Taylor Swift to Beyonce that have been going on on the internet, because people took that comment and ran with it, have been pissing me off, honestly. Because, yes, they're both pop artists, but they could not be more different in their skill set and expertise. And comparing them is just, it's, it's weird to me. Yeah, they're both at the top of their game. They both had the highest selling tours of the year. They're both incredible. They both support each other's career. But like, why are people trying to be Kanye right now? And it's, the comparisons have gotten to the point, my uncle, who's not really tapped into pop culture, but we were talking about it. And he didn't realize that Beyonce wasn't nominated she didn't have an album out for this set of awards. Yeah, he thought that Taylor Swift had won over Beyonce because that's how the conversation has started to sound. And yes, Taylor Swift has won album of the year four times, and it is absolutely atrocious that Beyonce has not won that award yet. But, like, the comparisons are just weird and putting fault on the artist, that's not correct. It's, it's fault of the academy. It's fault of the voting body, which is. largely older and largely white.
J. Xander:Yeah, I mean, it's, it's, it's just like, I don't even know what to say about this, because this is like a tricky subject, right? Because no matter what you kind of say about it, it all kind of comes back to the people voting, like you said. And it's like, you can't be too mad at like, the people that have won those awards, because it's like, they didn't ask to be put up there, but what are like, what do you, what did you want them to do? Be like, no, I'm sorry. I just thank you for the opportunity, but no, thank you. Like what else? Like, what do you want from them? Basically?
Nina:Yeah, I so remember when Adele won over Beyonce.
J. Xander:That's just what I was gonna bring up. And I'm like, I get what she was trying to, yeah.
Nina:She deserved it. I was pissed. I was, I saw red that evening. That Lemonade did not win album of the year. Like, and Adele even said she's like, I, I can't, she was like beside herself. She's like, I can't believe, and, and she talked about Beyonce in her acceptance speech.
J. Xander:Yeah, but like what else, well like what was Adele gonna do besides that, you know?
Nina:Not accept the award?
J. Xander:Right, like, it's not her fault.
Nina:It's an odd conversation, and I think Jay Z's larger point is that awards only really mean something when they go to the people who deserve them. Which is true.
J. Xander:Yeah.
Nina:I mean, that's, that's true. Um, but yeah, Lemonade deserved it 100%. I will always be salty about that, especially because I love Adele, but 25 is not my favorite album.
J. Xander:That's, I hate that she names all her albums her age, so they kind of get jumbled up in my head, but I, I, I agree.
Nina:That was the album with Hello on it, but it didn't really have anything else on it.
J. Xander:I think it was just like,
Nina:the album was good, but it didn't have any other like big singles.
J. Xander:It was like Hello, Send My Love, and Water Under The Bridge. But I mean, those are, I wouldn't categorize those as like her best songs.
Nina:No, they were catchy, but they were not like her best. Mhm. Yeah. Anyway, are there any more controversies that we missed that we can touch on?
J. Xander:This is an ugly one, but a lot of people A lot of people were questioning, like, why Tracy Chapman needed to be there, and I'm like, because she wrote the song.
Nina:That was dumb.
J. Xander:Did you see that?
Nina:I didn't see a lot of it. I saw a lot of responses to that.
J. Xander:Yeah, because I don't even really want to repeat, like, how it was phrased, because it's so stupid and ridiculous to me. Yeah. But I'm like, she wrote the song, so, like, why, why wouldn't she be?
Nina:If you are offered a chance to perform at the Grammys for a cover, the proper thing to do is reach out to the songwriter or the original artist and say, Hey, do you want to join me? Like that's just the right thing to do. Like Luke Combs was absolutely correct for having her on stage with him.
J. Xander:Yeah.
Nina:It's, I'm sorry, it's just, that's that's just good music industry manners. Like, we don't talk about that, about how there are just some things that are understood that you just do, right? Because it's, it's the right thing to do, like, it's just the ethics. And we are in kind of a shady industry, like, let's, let's be honest, there's some not great business practices. But you honor the original writer, the original artist. That's, that's absolutely the right thing to do. Like I've been impressed with Luke Combs, not necessarily his performance, I thought it was good, and I like the cover, I like the original better, truth be told. I've heard a lot of covers of that song and it's, and it's, it's a good cover, like I'm not, I'm not trying to shit on it, but, um, I've been more impressed with how he talks about her and what her album meant to him and why he covered the song. Than I really was impressed with like his performance or his recording of it, truth be told.
J. Xander:I think for the live performance he did exactly what he needed to do which is like it felt like they were singing the song together because one of my favorite like Memes from the Grammys that people still make fun of to this day is like that five person tribute to Aretha. Have you seen that?
Nina:Yeah,
J. Xander:Where it's like Christina Florence Welch, Jennifer Hudson Martina McBride and who is the other one? I don't remember but it it sounds like they're all singing They're, they're doing their own thing, right? It's like they are, it's as if they're not even aware of the other singers next to them.
Nina:They're all just diva-ing out.
J. Xander:Yeah, and it's just like so much all at once. And in this case you have the complete opposite of that. Right.
Nina:Yeah, it was a really good performance. What I noticed and what I loved was Tracy Chapman didn't give a fuck. She was just there. She was vibing. She was doing a great job. And Luke Combs looked scared out of his mind, which is how I would feel performing to the entire Academy. But Tracy's like, this is old hat. Who cares?
J. Xander:Yeah, I didn't really see it as scared. I saw it more as like, overwhelmed in a way, like, oh, this is like, really, this is, yeah, this is like, really happening, I'm really, yeah,
Nina:He looked like he was really, like, understanding it and taking it in. I love that Taylor Swift was the first one to stand up and sing along, and then everyone joined her, cause she saw Tracy Chapman come out, and every time they panned her, that bitch knew every word. Mm hmm. She put respect on Tracy Chapman and I loved it.
J. Xander:What do you think makes this song, like, this impactful to this day?
Nina:Oh god, that's such a good question.
J. Xander:Cause years from now, somebody's gonna probably release another cover of it, right? And it'll like resurface again. So like,
Nina:And I'm gonna have to explain to like my teenager, no, that was Tracy Chapman.
J. Xander:Yeah.
Nina:I think what's so powerful about the song is, and we've talked about, songs that can transcend genre. Like I've heard really like pop versions, like synths and drum machines, like really pop versions of the song that I've really liked. I think the melody just transcends genre. And I think it's. It's a specific story, but in the way that when you read a novel, that's a specific story, but you still relate to the character and you empathize with the person that's created in this story. Like, I am, I'm not a 12 year old boy, but I related to Harry Potter when I read the novel. There's something about this character trying to get out and trying to find a better life. And saying it's out there that I think we all relate to on some level, even though it's, it's masterful storytelling in such a short amount of time. And then the way that the chorus comes in, it just lifts and it takes you somewhere else. I mean, there's something in this song that is just... it's relatable, it's got a really great tight melody, and yeah, the, the verses are so grounded and the chorus is so lifted, like it's, there's something inspirational about it too. I don't know. I could talk about that song forever.
J. Xander:Yeah, uh, you know, I think this is a really good example of, this might sound obvious, but like, the actual craft of what songwriting should be. Right? Because a lot of the times, I feel like people don't actually, that's a very vague term nowadays, but like, people don't actually understand like, okay, what is a songwriter actually supposed to do? Like, are they setting the instruments? Are they just writing certain parts of the songs? Do they just do lyrics? And I think for me, my favorite definition of songwriting is, that sets us apart from, like, poets and composers, is that it's our job to put together the melody and lyrics. That's really like our job, right? That kind of sets us apart from the other two that might not, that might be missing one of those factors. In this one, it's just like the lyrics are good. Obviously, that she paints a really good picture and there's not a moment in the melody where it seems like wandery or clunky. It's just, it seems very intentional all the way through. So there's like, there's not really anything I can nitpick about the song itself, you know?
Nina:It's one of those few perfect songs, even though it does break a couple of rules, because it doesn't get to the chorus in the first minute. It has like a double verse at the beginning, if I'm remembering correctly.
J. Xander:I think so.
Nina:So there are a few things that like, break, I mean, at least pop songwriting rules, that you tell artists and they're like, they get mad at you.
J. Xander:I guess, I guess cause she was going for folk and it was like a different time period that that's like more flexible.
Nina:And the melody is so good. It's so good. The way that it has space and it speeds up like the timing of it is so like there's something so magical. It's one of those few like it breaks a rule and it's a perfect song.
J. Xander:Yeah, but also, I feel like it does a really good job of its chorus, obviously, but I feel like a lot of the times people forget what that section is actually supposed to do. Like, it's not supposed to be a part where you just scream the same word over and over again. It's, your chorus really should, it should be the part of your song where in one or two sentences you get the big picture. Yes. Right? You get, like, the main idea there. Um, about how you feel about it and the overall arching theme concepts and whatnot. I think I mentioned this before, but like Eric Leva One of our instructors from Berklee brought this up to me a while ago where it's like, for a good song, you should be able to hear the chorus. in like a grocery store or department store like wherever and know like exactly what the whole song is about just from that section alone. And with this song, you obviously do. And I think, I think the reason why she gets away with having like so many details in the verses is because the chorus itself is so, yeah, it's so, I don't even know how to put this.
Nina:It's like transcendent.
J. Xander:Yeah, it's like so relatable and so it yeah, it's just going back to like the Harry Potter reference It's like this is something that everybody has felt at one point. So it's like the details at that point don't even matter It's like I can connect to this part of the song.
Nina:Another rule that it breaks is the title is nowhere in the chorus Oh, yeah verses. Yeah. Yeah Um, which is, I mean, I mean, the whole song is, is beautiful and masterful and I hope that it does get covered for years and years and years because I do hope that I get to tell my kids who Tracy Chapman is.
J. Xander:It will be.
Nina:I'm going to anyway, whether there's a good cover out or not. Moving on. I think that covers our Grammy's coverage. J, you and I have both had a great start to 2024. You have just released A new song. Do you want to talk about it?
J. Xander:Yes, I just released a song called En Las Sombras, which is a vibe featuring Dito Delirium. We'll have him maybe a couple weeks from now. I gotta reach out to him again. Um, but yeah, it's a vibe. It's definitely fun. If you like the weekend or Bad Bunny type of vibes, definitely check it out. Um, we'll talk about it more later.
Nina:I love, I love that it is in both Spanish and English. It is a Spanglish song. Um, I love that it has something for, for both audiences and it is, it is such a vibe. Like it's, it's so cool. It's such a, it's such a cool song. Can you talk about like a little bit about the songwriting process?
J. Xander:Well, I was going to save that for the episode with him, but, uh, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Um, it was just like, I just reached out to him cause I'm one of those people where I'm like, I'm just like, I'll collaborate with anybody that I think is cool. And we just started coming up with like a bunch of different concepts and things that we liked. I always like to have a reference track in mind. So he and I like made a list and then we just looked at like the things that we had in common and then we started with the title itself, like as soon as I said, en las sombras, which means in the shadows, he was just like, honestly, after you said that, that's all I could think about, so let's go ahead and write that song, um, and then we just were careful to like, stay in theme, so we made like a lot of, like, scary or references back to that so that the whole song kind of felt cohesive. And we did a lot of rewrites and worked on it for a while, so I'm really happy with how it turned out.
Nina:I love it. It keeps popping up on my Spotify and every time I'm like, yes, okay, let's do it. Um, and so I'm, I'm looking forward to hearing even more. Do you have any other releases coming up or are we keeping that under wraps?
J. Xander:I'm keeping that under wraps for right now.
Nina:Okay. All right. Well, our audience will just have to stay tuned. Getting into our final segment of the week, J, what is your Playback Pick of the Week?
J. Xander:So I'm picking a song called Lose Control by Teddy Swims. He's such a good singer, and I've watched his stuff on YouTube for a while, and I have to say, like, I am not easily pleased when it comes to like cover artists, because I'm like, okay, I feel like you really gotta, you know, you're not writing or you're not doing anything new per se so it's like okay you've got to bring something different to this. But his voice alone is so like, raspy, but in a way that is still pleasant to listen to that any cover he does, I'm just like, yeah, this is, this is a vibe. This is nice to listen to. So it's really nice to see him, um, taking off, you know, we love when,
Nina:He's really starting to gain some notoriety, yeah Yeah,
J. Xander:we love when talented people get the recognition they deserve.
Nina:He does have a really unique voice, and I love that. I love singers that I can identify, like, immediately.
J. Xander:Yes.
Nina:And that's something that sticks with me. And that's usually when I really like covers, is when someone has a really identifiable voice.
J. Xander:Yeah, I really like when a cover is like the person has like a really different voice than the original because if they sound too similar, I'm like, why the hell would I listen to this as opposed to just the original? You know what I mean?
Nina:That's how I feel too. That's definitely how I feel. All right, my Playback Pick of the Week is Nothing Matters by The Last Dinner Party. It is this really cool alt girl band. I am super, super into them. I haven't listened to their album yet, but I have a really long drive today. And so that's like, that's, it's already cued, like I already know what I'm doing. But the Last Dinner Party has been facing some like accusations of industry plant. And a lot of I love your eye roll.
J. Xander:I fucking hate that term so much.
Nina:For our listening audiences, the biggest eye roll from J. I do too. So, um, you know, like Billie Eilish has faced accusations of industry plant. Some really talented people have faced the accusation of industry plant. Cause it's usually a talented person who gets that accusation. But my favorite response to the backlash was, If this is what an industry plant sounds like, plant more. The industry needs to plant more, please.
J. Xander:Right.
Nina:This song is super catchy, I love it, I posted it on Instagram, and a lot of people have come back and been like, thank you for this suggestion, I can't stop listening to it, so good.
J. Xander:Nice.
Nina:J, do you want to explain your eye roll for the industry plant comment?
J. Xander:Yes, because if you are associated with a record label, Whether it's big or small, like an indie smaller label, they're going to push you. That's the whole point of having you signed as an artist. They are putting
Nina:It's the best part of representation!
J. Xander:That's the whole point for those of you that don't understand how it works. You as an artist, when you're signed, the benefit of that is You come in and you work on your music and then when it comes to like merch and promotion you can either choose to work on that or you don't have to do shit And for me, I wouldn't want to do shit when it comes to promotion and all that stuff because it's that's a full time That's actually basically what I do in my full time job. So it's like it's Why would you want to do that as an artist yourself? You know you you love music. So give yourself the chance to work on that. It goes back to like the collaboration discussion we were having. Promoters and stuff like that are collaborators too. Yes. So don't be afraid to have them in your corner if you can.
Nina:Yes. It's, it's a tool. It's another tool in the toolbox that some people are just fortunate enough to have and, and it is a collaboration. I think that is the whole message of our entire podcast is music is more collaborative than you think that it's.
J. Xander:Every like in literally every everything. Yeah, not just the let's write it. Not let's write a song together, bro. Like, that's not that's what you see on Instagram. But it's like, it's so much more than that.
Nina:Yes, absolutely. All right, team go stream En las Sombras, check out our Playback Pics of the Week and we will see you next episode.
J. Xander:Bye.
Nina:Go create some good in the world.