Playback the Music Podcast

Top Ten Indie Songs of 2023

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It's a week for wrapping up 2023 and here at Playback, singer-songwriters and producers Nina Blu and J. Xander are counting down their top ten favorite indie songs of the year. They discuss why indie music is not a genre, how 90s influences are making a comeback in music, and introduce each other to some fantastic new artists. 

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Nina:

Welcome to Playback, the podcast about what's hot and trending in music right now. I'm singer songwriter Nina Blu. And

J. Xander:

I am singer songwriter producer J Xander.

Nina:

J, we are really excited for this episode because this is our best indie songs of 2023 episode. Now, a lot of people consider indie a genre, but you and I don't subscribe to that. So we are referring to, when we say indie, we're referring to either someone who is an independent artist, which means that they are unsigned. Or they are assigned to an independent label, which means they're not one of the big three. Is that, am I like crazy with that definition, or are you good with that?

J. Xander:

No, I would say so, yeah, for me it's either you're putting out your music by yourself, just doing it all, all yourself, a one man shop, if you will, a jack of all trades, or you are Yeah, like signed to one of the smaller labels that isn't like a huge corporate corporation. Not that there's anything wrong with either, but that's just for the purposes of like what we're doing for today's episode.

Nina:

I think it's important to talk about that. It's always good to support independent music. Um, a lot of independent musicians are songwriters like us, and sometimes they work with people who are on those big labels, and that's usually where, like, the big paychecks come from, but there is a lot of great undiscovered music out there. I doubt there's gonna be, like, a lot of crossover on our list, um, simply because our tastes are so, like, wide. And just spanning overall, you know?

J. Xander:

I feel like there might be two artists that appear on both our lists at the most. Okay. One just because it's like a big, like they were a big deal, but I don't know.

Nina:

Well, we'll probably have a lot of moments of, oh, that should have been on our list, or that should have been on my list.

J. Xander:

That too, yeah.

Nina:

But we'll put out an official playlist at the end of this episode so that you guys can listen to all of our picks start to finish.

J. Xander:

Right. And we were just talking about this a little bit ago, but would you define indie as a genre yourself, Nina?

Nina:

Absolutely not, and I have to stop myself from like, being rude about it, honestly. My sister the other day was like, oh, that's not indie. And I was like, yes, yes, that band is, because they're not signed. And I like, I don't know, I have like, a thing about it. I'm like, that's alternative music, it's not indie.

J. Xander:

Right, and it's just like, for me, the reason I don't see it that way either is because there is no defining trait of the indie genre, right?

Nina:

No.

J. Xander:

Even if you were to look at it from that perspective. Think about, I would compare it to movies, right? So comedies, they have to make you laugh. Dramas, they have their certain beats. Horror, etc. But like, with Indie music, like, what is it that makes an indie song? With rock, it has its own kind of set of rules and things that you expect. Country, etc.

Nina:

Live drums, guitars, stuff like that. A lot of times for me, it's instrumentation that determines genre. Is that how it works for you?

J. Xander:

Yeah, for sure. Instrumentation and also sometimes how, this is gonna sound weird, but how, like, the lyrics or the vocals are mixed.

Nina:

Yeah, that too. For sure. For sure. For sure.

J. Xander:

The more natural it is, the more I'm like, okay, that's like country or folk or whatever. But for me, the fact that you can have something like Indie Pop, Indie Rock, Indie Acoustic or whatever kind of proves our point. In that it's not really, it's just an umbrella term. It's too vague for me, really.

Nina:

There's been some talk, some chatter, and this was between two of our professors, even, as to whether genre is still relevant, and you and I actually took an entire class called Genre Analysis, and I figured I would probably 180, that I would probably go from thinking genre's not really that important to thinking it's very important. I really more just acknowledge the role that genre plays in terms of production, because very little these days do people, like, Park themselves in their genre, like it's an identity. Most people are willing to listen to a bunch of different genres. Like we're not in the era of the disco sucks movement. I do hear a lot of people still saying like they really hate country. When to me there's so many different genres of country or um, I'll hear people be like, oh, I really don't like rap music and it's like No, we all have that one country song or that one rap song that we all love because it's hooky and it's great And it just has those wonderful principles of what makes a song good

J. Xander:

I was gonna say when you said that about country, it was like I was about to say that's me I'm people but like I also like Morgan Wallen. I love Leanne Rimes and Rascal Flatt So it's just like there's always an exception

Nina:

Have you seen that meme of it's a guy saying, like, I hate country music, and then the thing is, like, Jolene comes on?

J. Xander:

Oh, shit, yeah. I mean, that's Dolly Parton. She transcends genre, if you will.

Nina:

Yeah, she transcends culture, genre.

J. Xander:

She just put out her rock album.

Nina:

Yes, oh, I haven't listened to it yet. That's like, uh, my treat for this week.

J. Xander:

I haven't either. Ooh, maybe we should talk about that on a future episode.

Nina:

Probably, we'll wind up doing a Dolly episode at some point.

J. Xander:

I was gonna say, I think like a full on just Dolly episode would be appropriate.

Nina:

Alright, so, um, that was our rant about whether indie is a genre or not. Um, are you ready to get into our top 10?

J. Xander:

Yes.

Nina:

Alright, so what is your 10th favorite independent song of the year?

J. Xander:

Yeah, and before we get into it, I just want to say shout out to AIM, not AIM, like the old texting service that millennials, you guys used to use, um, it's the Association of Independent Music, that has an awards ceremony for independent artists every year. Honestly, I think it's amazing that an association like that even exists, because being an independent artist, even if you're with an indie label, is really, really hard, so shout out to them, they're doing the Lord's work. So most of my list comes from their nominees. So my first one, and I'm not sure if I'm pronouncing the name of the song correctly, but it's gonna be Echo Lila by Eve's Tumor. And this is a really weird song. It reminds me a lot of, like, early Gorillaz, um, their music. It's, like, very experimental rock, if you will, and the way that the vocal is mixed is, like, super in the background. It almost doesn't matter because it's more about, like, the vibe. Like, this is more of a song that you're gonna have in the background of you driving or, maybe doing some cardio. It's like a cool mix of EDM and rock music, which I always enjoy hearing.

Nina:

I do love a good EDM rock crossover, so I haven't heard that song, but it sounds like a vibe. Sounds good.

J. Xander:

Very 90s grunge, kinda, if you will.

Nina:

Yeah. I have a lot of stuff on here that I liken to very 90s stuff. I, I've dis

J. Xander:

I do too!

Nina:

It's something that I, like, discovered about myself in making this list.

J. Xander:

You know what it is? I think, like, a couple years ago, remember when, 80s song sounding songs were, like, super in?

Nina:

Yeah,

J. Xander:

Now I feel like because it's a new generation of people making music the trend is now like more so gonna be 90s

Nina:

I think so and that makes me really happy But it that also kind of follows like how fashion is very You know, cyclical, like, so a few years ago, people were trying to dress more 80s, and now people are trying to dress more 90s

J. Xander:

Things always come back.

Nina:

That they do. That they do. They come back around. Alright, 10 is actually a fellow Berklee alum and a mutual on TikTok. And it's Carter James. His song, Can't Help Myself. He's a fantastic young queer artist, and he writes and produces everything himself. I am endlessly impressed by him, especially with the videos that he posts of, like, making music on TikTok. Definitely give him a follow. This song is really slow and sad, and it has just interesting percussion elements that help carry it, that help like keep giving it momentum. It's super long. It's five minutes long, but it's worth every second. And I never say that, like, you know, me, like I never have the patience to get through a five minute song, but it just, it builds so nicely, especially in the last minute, it really does take off. It's. It's a heartbreaking song about some of the cycles that we get stuck in with our mental health and that's where like the title, I Can't Help Myself or Can't Help Myself comes from about like some of these self sabotaging habits that we have, um, and trying to reach these goals and, and just saying like, I can't help myself and being kind of stuck in this loop.

J. Xander:

Yeah.

Nina:

So it's a really relatable song as well. Um, definitely give it a listen and yeah. So impressed. His new EP is also very good. Go check it out.

J. Xander:

That's very cool. Yeah, I feel like if you're gonna have, like, a super long song like that, then it should be about an important topic. Or that is, like, I'm, and you know me at this point, I'm not the biggest, like, storyteller or songwriter. That's just never been my thing. But I feel like there, there is where it would be appropriate to do as well.

Nina:

Yeah, it's hard to tell a love story longer than three minutes long, because at some point we all get a little bit tired of it. But if you're going in on a really important topic, I feel like it's good. But few people can break that five minute mark for me.

J. Xander:

Yeah, I mean it's a hard, people's attention span, it's not just yours, it's just like, especially after the pandemic, you know.

Nina:

Yeah, well, and then also, at some point I just feel like the artist is on a tangent.

J. Xander:

Get to the point already.

Nina:

If it gets to like, verse 4, what new information are you adding? Like, what are you, what is the point here? I was listening to a song today, and it was really good, but I was so tired of the melody, and I look at it, and it's in like, minute 3:45, and I was like, And it still had another minute to go. I was like, why? Just make cuts. And I know, I used to be the artist of like, I can't cut anything. Everything is precious. And, and now I'm, I'm brutal about it. So, it's a good exercise.

J. Xander:

It reminds me of a great TikTok of this lady that saw a Leo Tolstoy book in her bookshop, in a bookshop, and she just picks it up. And it's like, thicker than a phone book. It is thick, thick. And she's just like, how much, how much do you have to say? Like, it is never that serious.

Nina:

What also drives me nuts about Tolstoy is, like, there are five characters with the same flipping name. Every book.

J. Xander:

Yeah, you can't do that.

Nina:

Ugh, it makes me crazy. That's just, like, a nitpicky thing. Yeah. Fashion, literature, Nina's just in a ranty mood tonight.

J. Xander:

Yeah, she said, fuck them Tolstoy books.

Nina:

God, you can use them as a doorstop. Anyway. So, J, let's move on. What is your number nine?

J. Xander:

My number nine is a song called Charge It by Eni. And it's an interesting rap song. It also helped me kinda see how, how much independent artists from the UK are just like killing it right now. They, they always eat it, you know? They're always, just, I don't know why. It's a small country, but it always just has great, great musicians from there. Um, so it's a song about kind of dealing with your struggles by buying things. And I relate to this big time. Like, anytime something, like, severely bad has happened to me, I'll buy it.

Nina:

Add to cart.

J. Xander:

Yup, add to the cart. Don't even, you know, when Amazon asks you that question, buy it or add it to the cart, buy it. I don't even think about that. I'm just like, yup, put it in there. Or, usually

Nina:

You have my credit card and my address and part of my soul, Amazon.

J. Xander:

You know where I am, Jeff Bezos. Just send it. Um, no, for me it'll either be that or plug ins, cause they make me happy. Um, yes, uh, so this song is like a very, about a very relatable thing. My only gripe with it and why it's like so low on my list is because Um, it has a really strong pre chorus, and the chorus is really good, but it's so short, and I'm like, this is the best part of your song, why is this not like twice as long? But because I'm, you know, consider myself like a hook writer slash chorus writer, like that's like the big thing for me in any song all the time, um, I'm very like aware of that. So some people might not care, but for me it's like a big thing, so. But it still, it doesn't like ruin the song for me. It's just like, oh, I wish I wanted more of that.

Nina:

You wanted more of it. So, um, I was in studio actually with a UK producer and we had a moment where we realized like the song we were writing was really short and he was like, oh, what do we do? And I was like, you know what? In the era of streaming. Nothing.

J. Xander:

You don't do anything. Nothing, honey.

Nina:

Nothing. Because I want people to start the song over again, to hear the hook again. You know what? Like, that's a song where I really could have been tempted to put in, like, an instrumental break or this or that. Like, something to lengthen it. If this was, like, 15 years ago, that's probably what we would have done. But it's, like, 2 minutes and 20 seconds or something like that. And I was like, perfect. Done. The song said everything that it needed to say. It's just another breakup song. It's not a long story to tell and that's kind of where we're at So I wonder if that was part of the artist's motivation was to have a short chorus So that people start the song over again go back to it

J. Xander:

And I will say that's yeah, maybe and that's a very prevalent thing Actually, my number one doesn't even clock in at two minutes. So I

Nina:

I mean, yeah, we're getting to a place where the shorter the better So my number 9 is called I've Been Here Before by Karina Grove. She is really lesser known, and I actually discovered her because we were added to the same playlist. Her song was added to the same playlist as Magnetic, my recent release.

J. Xander:

Stream it!

Nina:

I've quickly become obsessed with it. Like, it's, it's a super, super good song. Her voice is like butter, it's so smooth, and the song is like getting in a warm bath. Like, it just has this great, um, like, somewhere between like jazz and folk vibe to it, with like, an underlying rock tone. Um, it's about, please don't bring me down, I've been here before. It is so good, and the high note that she sings at the end sends me every time. Like, what a talented vocalist. It's an incredible song, um, it's kind of a slower, sadder song. I guess I'm just like, in my feels lately, but it's, it's great, I love it. And for those of you who don't know, we can see the playlist that you add us to through the Spotify for Artists app. So y'all, y'all be some freaks out there with some crazy playlist titles.

J. Xander:

Oh, that's funny. What's the, like, craziest playlist name you've been added to?

Nina:

Oh god, I'd have to, I'd have to go look, um, because it changes every day.

J. Xander:

Very cool.

Nina:

But that's, that is something to, like, look Have you seen those videos of people on TikTok who put up the playlists that they've been added to?

J. Xander:

No.

Nina:

Oh god, I'm hoping to do that sometime next year, cause it's, it's funny every single time.

J. Xander:

Very cool. Yeah.

Nina:

Some TikTok fodder for those of you independent artists who may be listening. Um Alright, J, what's your number 8?

J. Xander:

So my number 8 is gonna be a song called Good Lies by Over Mono, which, I don't know too much about them, but that's a really cool name. Um, yeah, and this is a very cool house type beat that the vocalist sounds a lot like Kim Petras, um, singing in a very soft voice. And honestly, there's not a lot to say about this song other than that it's just like, it's a vibe. And it's one of the ones that I would, like, listen a lot more to than, um, the other two choices that I had, but yeah, a cool little house D& B moment.

Nina:

I never listen to house music and I should.

J. Xander:

I love it because it's just like, I don't know, it just always makes me feel better.

Nina:

Yeah, yeah. It's good to work out too, too, and I never, I never think to turn on house music when I go, like, to lift anymore.

J. Xander:

Yeah, and this one reminds me a lot of a song called On and On by, I don't remember the artist's name, but it was like on a bunch of commercials for a while that, it came out last, this year as well. I'll send that over to you.

Nina:

Awesome. Awesome. So many good tunes coming out. Okay, so my number eight is called Semantics by an artist named Michael Simon Armstrong, which I Don't know. I just really like that name. It's a good name. It rolls off the tongue very nicely.

J. Xander:

His artist name or the song name? Cuz I was gonna say that's a really cool name for a song.

Nina:

I think that's just his name. Like his artist name and his legal name. I think it might be Michael Simon Armstrong, which just rolls nicely, but Semantics is such a great name for a song.

J. Xander:

Yeah, you could do a lot with that

Nina:

You can do so much this this song is super cool. Um, it's somewhere between like late 2010s alternative and 90s alternative. It actually reminds me a lot of Third Eye Blind who I freaking love. I think I listened to them like every day for a year, in the car with my best friend going to high school because she was a year older than me and so she could drive. She'd pick me up in the morning and we would listen to Third Eye Blind like the entire trip. It was great. Um, so The guitar parts are weird. They're so odd. I don't know what effects have been put on these guitar solos. But you can tell they were like intentionally looking for the sound or they accidentally found it and they're like, That's what we're going with. It's so unique and it's right on the edge of weird and what the fuck. So it sounds very new and very fresh, which is hard to do with guitar solos. And so, like, I, I appreciate the hell out of this song from, like, production to write the whole thing, I think it's incredible. Um, if people are looking for kind of like a rock alternative vibe, definitely check it out.

J. Xander:

Very cool. You had me at the title and 90s sounding, so.

Nina:

Third Eye Blind. If I, that is on my list of, like, people that I need to see before I die. Like, I have to go to a Third Eye Blind concert. Very cool. One day.

J. Xander:

So Moving on, um, I'm gonna get into my number 7, which is gonna be a song called Hurt You by Connie Constance. And I'm not gonna lie, the, the reason I really like this song is because it sounds a lot like that song, Our Spot, that Willow Smith and, um, I forget the other artist's name to be honest with you, but Willow Smith put out like a couple years ago and it was like, It had like this really interesting, like, alternative rock vibe to it and I love the way that the vocals were produced. I will say the, this one does feel like the lyrics kind of Go on for a little bit too long, which is why it's like number seven only number seven on my list But overall like it's still a vibe like this is very much a song that I would I would like to just drive down the highway While listening to this song which I live in Virginia, so My commute is crazy. Any of you that live out here in the DMV area know that when I say that, it will probably be tomorrow because that's such a frequent thing here. We be driving in this area. It's crazy.

Nina:

I do too, and so I always need, like, good driving playlists.

J. Xander:

Yes.

Nina:

So that just, like, help me chill out and maybe, like, get out of my head so I can just pay attention to the road. I always need good driving songs. Alright, so my number 7 was actually, like, a huge TikTok trend. And I am now hearing it everywhere. It is Lil Boo Thing by Paul Russell. So he's a rapper, and he sampled the 1977 track Best of My Love by The Emotions, which was written by Maurice White and Alma Kay of Earth, Wind Fire. Probably one of the greatest songs of all time.

J. Xander:

Yeah.

Nina:

Like, it's incredible. And so he actually got signed because the song popped off so hard on TikTok. He was previously part of like a smaller label. I don't know if they dropped him or not. I don't really know what, um, the story is there. Uh, but he told Billboard that he wrote the song after being stressed out on a Thursday afternoon. So he just turned on some music that makes him happy, and he imagined that he was celebrating something, and that's the story. and where it came from. The rhymes in it are kitschy and they're cute and they're adorable. He talks about keeping it chill like Sauvignon Blanc and the song just makes me happy and I'm hearing it like in the background of all of these sync commercials and I can tell that it's specifically his version. So, he's just popped off and is doing super, super well, so it just goes to show you never know what a Thursday afternoon is gonna turn into.

J. Xander:

Yeah, very cool. Good for him.

Nina:

He seems like such a nice guy, too, and I'm, I'm really happy for him. Um, I think he got to, like, number 25 on Billboard Hot 100.

J. Xander:

Oh, wow.

Nina:

Yeah, like, it really, it really, really popped off. Um, at one point, there was, like, he was on a chart somewhere right after 1989 was released, And he broke up 1980. Oh, it was, uh, the iTunes chart for like top buys. And it was, the top ten was all Taylor Swift, except for like number eight was him. And some Swifty had tweeted like, Who the hell is this Paul Russell guy? And so he made a video, he's like, If I disappear tonight, you guys know what happened.

J. Xander:

Swifty's did it.

Nina:

It was really funny. So he seems to have like a great sense of humor and he seems to be really talented. What I really love about this song, I want to see like more of this kind of stuff from rap and hip hop artists because with the exception of like UK rap, I'm really bored with American rap these days.

J. Xander:

I am too. I hate to say, but

Nina:

It's like they've forgotten to be catchy because they're so, they're trying to be edgy and they're kind of going the way of rock music a little bit where like it's constantly trying to be edgy as opposed to just like making a good song.

J. Xander:

I totally feel the same way and I think it speaks volumes as to why like, I think this year was the first year on the top 100 where a rap song didn't, didn't get the top spot at all.

Nina:

Um, I think Doja Broke that with Paint the Town Red, but the girlies have been coming in and delivering. Like it's only like female rappers that I think have really delivered some hits this year

J. Xander:

But even then it was only like a week and like really late into the year, wasn't it?

Nina:

Yeah, it was it was super late. Um, it might have been like October that Paint the Town Red hit number one I think and it it was only in that number one spot. You're right for like a week. I want to say But yeah, I'm, I'm bored with the state of rap and having, like, fun, silly songs. Like, try and be silly and enjoy it and have fun making music again. Like, I'm really, really very tired of hearing the same thing over and over again.

J. Xander:

Yeah, I'm kinda happy to see mumble rap on its way out, to be honest.

Nina:

Yeah.

J. Xander:

Doesn't do it for me. Sorry.

Nina:

Me either. Me either. So, J, what is your number six?

J. Xander:

My number six is going to be NBPQ by an artist named Sudan Archives. And this is another one that's very, like, 90s influenced. It's got a great Kind of melodic rhythm to it and it's it gives me really really strong like Beyonce renaissance vibes I feel like it could live on that album Honestly very comfortably and I think that her delivery on this is very confident It's that kind of like I am that girl song and I I love songs like that just any kind of empowerment song I love it.

Nina:

I do too. We haven't been getting a whole lot of empowerment songs lately. I don't know if it's because 2023, like we talked about last week, has not, has not been like that year for many people. Like a lot of people say they've been down, they've had a hard 2023. I don't know what stars are doing what in the sky astrologically that make us feel this way. Um, but I do love a really good empowerment song, but I don't know if it's just me or I've just been hearing like a lot of heartbreak songs from women.

J. Xander:

No, I. I've been hearing them from women and men. So it's getting to be like, like immediately last night comes to mind. Cause I feel like that song, we talked about it for forever. Just because

Nina:

Well, it was on the charts forever.

J. Xander:

Yeah, exactly

Nina:

We did we talked about ad nauseum.

J. Xander:

Yeah, but that flowers kill bill They were all three of them are about a shitty relationship and I'm like, okay, that's important But it's like we have to have songs that make us feel good about ourselves, too

Nina:

I mean, Flowers kind of is empowering, like I was talking to like a friend of a friend who's going through a divorce, and she's like, that song is getting me through right now, and I was like, good for you, girlfriend, she's like, I can buy myself flowers, and it did help empower her, but it is from the standpoint of getting over a relationship, and that's kind of the main story of it, and the empowerment part is in the chorus, so I, it's, it's kind of one of those that like, It is a it's still a breakup song. Like, it's an empowering breakup song, but it's still a breakup song. Right? Playing on that I Will Survive Gloria Gaynor, like, vibe.

J. Xander:

Yeah.

Nina:

Alright, so my number six is a good friend of ours and a podcast guest, Still Want It by Faith Guerra. Faith's voice is incredible. We talk about the song, like, in the episode. It does a great job of showing what a talented vocalist she is without trying to out sing her own song. Um, definitely go back, listen to it, listen to the episode with her on it, she's an incredible songwriter, and I, I freaking love this song.

J. Xander:

Yeah, her tone reminds me a little bit of Ariana Grande, um, in that it's just like very light and pleasant to listen to, but yeah, you're right, she doesn't try to go, All over the place and like crazy with it, even though it's a song where it feels like she could, it, I feel like she does it in a really, she sings it in a really tasteful way.

Nina:

She serves the song, yeah, cause she does have like a set of pipes, oh lord, that she could, you know, sing the roof down and I appreciate when singers like that serve the song, especially a song that she wrote and is very emotional for her. It's also such like a, a great and common story for a lot of independent artists who. They're trying to get out. They're trying to do something new. You know it's that like scary feeling of like, I thought this was gonna be like this but I still I still want it I'm still working for it so awesome song, Faith. We love you and love love the song.

J. Xander:

Yeah I wish I had included that on my list as well I didn't think about that but that It was genius, especially because that's a song that, since we're talking about like, independent artists, it's a song that represents, you know, resonates with all of us.

Nina:

Yeah.

J. Xander:

I know, so.

Nina:

I have yet to meet like, another indie artist that I've shown that song to, like, um, because I went on this writing retreat and I played it for a few friends, and they were like, I feel this song, like, deep in my soul. And I was like, yes. Yes.

J. Xander:

So, good job, Faith.

Nina:

Awesome. Alright, J, what is your number 5?

J. Xander:

My number 5 is gonna be a song called, uh, Gorilla by Lil Sims, which is another UK rap artist. I know people, people make fun of UK rap artists, like, all the time, but I don't know. It's just, it's just, I guess they say that you can't take them seriously because of their accent. It sounds, like, too proper next to a genre that's supposed to be, like, hard or whatever. But I'm like, that doesn't mean that they didn't go through things, too. You know, it's just, I don't know, I don't really understand that take.

Nina:

That's a very American take.

J. Xander:

It is, yeah.

Nina:

That's a, cause like, when I listen to, like, the rap accent of the UK, that sounds like the equivalent of the rap accent here. So, that's, that's, that's a dumb take.

J. Xander:

I agree, and also, most of the people that, like, casual fans of hip hop especially, Even if they have that take, one of the things they always say is, I don't care about what they're rapping about, I just, I'm just in it for the beat. I'm like, so why do you care what accent they have, if that's the case? You don't know what they're saying anyway. Especially with mumble rap, which has been kind of the most prevalent kind of rap for the past couple years.

Nina:

Definitely in the US, for sure. And what I specifically love about UK rap is there are a lot of Afro Caribbean beats in it. So the beat is always solid. Always. But sorry, I interrupted you. You go ahead.

J. Xander:

No, no, you're fine. Um, But I was just saying, yeah, this one is that same kind of Feel as well. It's very actually it has like a lot of jazz infusion as well to add to what you were saying this one her delivery actually reminds me a little bit of like 90s artists specifically like Lauryn Hill where it's like not aggressive, but it's just very fluid and very To kind of steal one of your quotes. It's like her voice is very just buttery over the track and it reminds me a lot of Lauren's song, Lost Ones, which is the opening track to Miseducation, um, which is my favorite album ever. So I'm not giving that compliment lightly. But it's very much like this cautionary tale about not getting too caught up in kind of the rush of fame and success. And I think that's really cool. I think that's like an interesting thing to talk about with rap.

Nina:

You compare someone to Lauryn Hill and I am sold. Immediately. Especially, especially Miseducation. We should do a Miseducation episode.

J. Xander:

Listen, I, I think that would be a two hour, maybe three hour long episode. If I'm, if I'm on that episode.

Nina:

Miseducation part one and part two. Ninety minutes each episode. Oh, turn it on on a long. A long car ride, guys. We'd have fun. That would be an episode for us.

J. Xander:

Yes. We'd have to have special guests on that one too. It would be a thing.

Nina:

Oh, that'd be great. That'd be so good. Um, anyway, so my number five is another playback pick of the week, former playback pick of the week, and it is Trying by Joy Boy. I talked about it in a previous episode. This is a friend of mine, Jeff. We met on a campaign a while ago and the singer, well, I think they both sing, but like Cole is kind of the lead vocalist and he's another vocalist where like, when I hear his voice, I just want more. He has incredible tone and support. And just an excellent singer, but also this song is really vulnerable and I think really relatable to anyone who is single right now and dating. Um, and it's about why am I trying with the wrong guy? And it's so emotional and every time I listen to it I feel seen I feel heard with the day to day struggle on top of like The dating scene, as it is what it is, which you and I talk about all the time, is trash. It is dumpster fire.

J. Xander:

Yeah, I'm not even gonna touch on that, so.

Nina:

Nope. But definitely go check it out. Um, they released an EP since we last talked about them, and it is excellent. It's, it's so good. It puts a smile on my face every single time

J. Xander:

Alright, so my number four is gonna be a song called Cleopatra by the Nova Twins. And this song has such a good instrumental riff that just like hits you in the face. This is like very aggressive rock from two black women that I just, I love that. So much. It sounds, it reminds me a little bit of the track that Beyoncé did with Jack White called Don't Hurt Yourself. And I also just love the, the hook at the beginning of the chorus, which is I'm a samurai dancer. Just something about that line kills me. I love it so much and this track is so badass. So normally I don't even really like rock like that, but if it's catchy, it's catchy. I don't really care.

Nina:

Yeah, right? That's, that's mostly where our music taste lies. Like, we prefer some genres sometimes, but if it's catchy, it's catchy.

J. Xander:

Yeah, and this is another one of those, like, I'm that girl type of song, which, again, I'm a huge fan of. More songs like that, please.

Nina:

Don't Hurt Yourself. Don't Hurt Yourself is probably one of, like, my favorite Beyonce songs of all time.

J. Xander:

Me too.

Nina:

Uh, incredible. So, I Am Sold, and what a great title, Cleopatra. I know. Especially if you're talking about who that girl is. Alright, this was the point. in making my list, when I realized just how in my feelings I've been this year, especially with music. My number four song is Support Group by Sawyer. They're a pop duo, they're amazing, I was fortunate enough to see them live in October, and if you get the chance to see them, definitely do, you will fall in love with them, they are great performers, they have fantastic chemistry, they really are best friends, and they love each other, and they are, So funny and fun to watch. Um, the song is about I could start a support group for all the girls who shouldn't have loved you. Which is great.

J. Xander:

Damn. Drag him. That's crazy.

Nina:

Drag him. Um, it's got a

J. Xander:

That's wild.

Nina:

It's so good. It's another great, like, 90s style sound. It gives me, like, driving in California vibes, like West Coast, you see the beach, driving to the beach kind of thing. It's short and sweet at 2 minutes and 22 seconds, which I appreciate. Um, and it's an incredible song. It's, it's super good. So, on Spotify, it doesn't say whether something's an EP or not. It just calls it either an album or a single. Like, they don't make the Distinction album, EP, single. Um, so I don't know if The artists if Sawyer meant for this to be like an EP and Spotify's calling it a single. But there were three songs along with this single release and I was gonna include this song too But I kind of wanted to highlight as many independent artists as I could I did so Yeah, so I will just say the song Halfway that is also on the EP is so heartbreaking. Like, I cried when I saw them perform it. Um, it's about, I don't want to love you halfway, and that's why I'm considering leaving. And it's, it's heart wrenching. It's a beautiful, beautiful song, and so it's my honorable mention for the episode. And, uh, so definitely go check out Sawyer, please. They're amazing.

J. Xander:

Nice. Yeah, that's not where I was expecting a song called Support Group to go, honestly.

Nina:

It's it's great. I mean

J. Xander:

That's crazy.

Nina:

Think of like that one fuckboy that just has done it to every girl

J. Xander:

Or a guy

Nina:

Or guy or both.

J. Xander:

Yeah, fuck that guy. Anyway, my number three Anyway, moving on from yeah, my number three is gonna be Escapism by Rey And this is a song where I'll be honest um, I was kind of persuaded more so by her influence and just Profile more than the song itself because Rae is, you know, a good representation of I think what independent artists can achieve. She's doing things on like a big level and her NPR Show was really really great too, very casual But had, she really has like Amy Winehouse vibes to the way that she sings But her tracks feel a lot more aggressive, a lot more in the style of hip hop More hip hop leaning, um, even though Amy had a little bit of that. Um, racetracks just are a little bit more aggressive to me. This song is, the production is great. It is fantastic, it is like right up my alley. It's very future y, almost bordering on like hyper pop. The one thing about it that is a little bit weird for me is that the verses are catchier than the chorus itself. So it, Misses the mark a little bit for me on that, but overall, I still love the song itself. It's really cool.

Nina:

I can't remember the last time that I heard a song where I thought the verses were catchier than the chorus.

J. Xander:

I can't either.

Nina:

Which is, is odd. That's like, you know, usually, usually you want your verse to be as catchy as a chorus. Um, and that apparently has become Ed Sheeran's philosophy. Is he's trying to write a verse that's as catchy as a chorus and then he's trying to outdo it in the chorus section. Yeah. And I think about that all the time when I'm writing.

J. Xander:

Yeah, to songwriters out there, that's a really good tip. Your verse, your, every section of your song should still be a hook. But you don't want it to outshine your chorus. Cause your chorus is what you want people to walk away singing with you. That's why it's called a chorus. So keep that in mind.

Nina:

That's why you repeat that part. Yeah. Like, really and honestly. Um, so my number three is our very good friend, Cati Landry, and it's Mind's Eye, her release this year. I have loved this song since I first heard it. I was very privileged to hear it, um, while we were still in our graduate program, and it wasn't released yet, and it wasn't actually quite finished yet either. But I was like, I need this song right now. And I had to stop myself from texting Cati and just like, asking for the mp3. I have listened to this song on repeat, uh, especially the first few weeks after it came out. It's performing really, really well and super, super proud of our friend.

J. Xander:

Yeah, this song, what I will say about it is that it's like, there's not a moment in it where I'm like, Oh, this could be changed, this could be different. Like, it just really flows. Really, really well. So nice. And that's hard to, that's hard to do with any kind of song, but I def definitely think she got like a right mix of, um, a right amount of hooks in there as well.

Nina:

And her voice just, it does something to me. It always puts me at ease very, even, even if she's talking about like, um, a breakup, right? She just has this like dreamy, beautiful voice that just always makes me, uh, feel a little bit better about life.

J. Xander:

Yeah, I agree.

Nina:

Alright J, what is your number two?

J. Xander:

Uh, so my number two is gonna be Hold Girl by Rina Sawayama. And this song for me, just like the whole vibe in her especially, this is again a compliment that I don't give away lightly, but it has very like early Lady Gaga vibes to it. Even with the just like the tone of her voice. It's like very dark and very chesty Just she sounds a little bit like Gaga and it has like a lot of really cool stuttering effects that production here is It's so good. I love it. It has like strings in it, but it's like mostly an EDM song or pop song I should say, but it's got like acoustic elements too. I think that's so cool. So forward. The hooks all really work for me and the vocal performance here is great. So I I know a lot of people that are, like, in the sphere of hyperpop and love people like Charli X, love Rina. I've only, like, recently started getting more and more into her, and I'm like, I get it. It's, I get the vibe. She's just different enough, but I, I think I'll be a fan very shortly.

Nina:

Nice. Nice. Oh, I gotta, I gotta listen to that. That sounds amazing.

J. Xander:

Yeah, I think you would like it.

Nina:

So my number two, and I might actually get in trouble for this, I had to look it up like three, four times, um, is Not Strong Enough by Boy Genius. Yes, Boy Genius is considered indie because they're part of an indie label. Um, so I'm still meeting my own requirements. Yeah. I will say, I love all things sapphic and tragic, only if the people writing it are in fact sapphic, um, I want to scream this outro so badly, and I have wanted to scream along to it in my car since I first heard it, um, because it's always an angel, never a god, and it's definitely, it's It's the thematic idea of the band's work, and it's about how like, women are devalued and they have to be angelic and perfect and pure all the time, whereas men get to be gods, which is like, the highest top tier, if you think about like, any religion, angels versus gods, and um, and they kind of like, get to get away with whatever they want because they're the gods. And so I want to scream the outro of the song. Over and over again. This song is brilliant from start to finish, it's beautiful, I could do an entire dissertation on it, and, um, really, really hoping that they take home some big awards at the Grammys this year. Especially for indie representation.

J. Xander:

Yeah, I really hope that happens too. I didn't See, I was scared of that also, which is why I didn't include them. Like, I knew Phoebe was technically considered indie, I think, but I didn't wanna

Nina:

She's on an all three of them are on indie labels.

J. Xander:

Very cool.

Nina:

Yeah, and they're going through Phoebe's label. It's called Blue, maybe? I can't remember.

J. Xander:

I don't know. But, yeah, I mean, that's a great song, too. I think we both had it, like, as our pick for Want to Win for Record of the Year, right?

Nina:

Yeah, we did. Yeah. We did, we did. I do have that in a document. I have it saved. I wrote it all out as we were listening, as I was listening back to, um, our Grammy Predictions episode. So, we know exactly who did what, so we know who's gonna win.

J. Xander:

Nice.

Nina:

Our little friendly competition we have going.

J. Xander:

Nice. I'm sure I won't. I never win. I never guess things like that right. But, cool.

Nina:

Me either! So, it's gonna be interesting to see how that turns out. It'll be a fun episode. Alright, J, what is your number one?

J. Xander:

So, my number one is gonna be a song called Heaven by Shy Girl. And, this song I'm such a Charli XCX stan, I swear. It's one of the big reasons I included it on here is because it reminds me a lot of a song of Charli's called Detonate and Lock It Up, which are two of my favorite songs of hers and it just has like a very similar drum pattern and the, the hook to this song is I couldn't tell you a single word of it, but after I, like, listened to all these tracks, it's the only one that I was still humming along to. And for me, because I focus on hooks so much, that's saying a lot, I feel like. Um, and it's, I also just kind of delved more into wanting to know what kind of stuff that she does in general, and this song, um, Is really different but still in line with her style which is very, it's like a really cool mix of hyper pop but also rap that she does really well. She has a delivery that's kind of similar to Ice Spice where it's like laid back but still just aggressive enough and I love it. This song is one that I'm gonna have on repeat probably all week long.

Nina:

Listen, a good melody is everything. Never let lyrics get in the way of a good melody.

J. Xander:

Yeah, and this is the one that, it actually only comes in at like a minute 28 seconds, I think.

Nina:

Oh, so she gets a lot done.

J. Xander:

Yeah, and it's the one that stuck with me the most. So there you go, you don't have to have a 10 minute long song, y'all. Keep it short.

Nina:

Have you seen Bonnie McKee is getting a lot of heat right now for having such a short song?

J. Xander:

No.

Nina:

She's calling it, I think she's calling it like a microbop. Which is hilarious. Um, so I follow her on TikTok and I, I mean, I just love Bonnie McKee. But she has, she's putting, she's finally put out music after like a really long time. And it's, it's a song about like, don't get mad, get famous, which is hilarious. And people have been like after her, like, why is this song so short? Especially since you took a long time to put something out as an artist. And, um, but the phrase micro bop is amazing.

J. Xander:

How long is it?

Nina:

I think, I think it's under two minutes. I can't, I don't remember off the top of my head, but you know, like people, people want to be upset about what people want to be upset about. Um, I think she's doing an open verse challenge right now on TikTok, so anybody who's, uh, who's brave enough to duet Bonnie McKee, go ahead.

J. Xander:

She's, she's a legend at songwriting.

Nina:

She is. Yeah. Oh my god. Um, anytime, one time I had somebody ask me, like, if I knew her, and I was like, are you kidding? I would be screaming from the rooftop if I knew her.

J. Xander:

She's so cool.

Nina:

She's amazing. Bonnie, anytime you want to come on the pod, you're more than welcome.

J. Xander:

I was just about to say, yeah, please. Teach us!

Nina:

Shoot. Yeah. Please! Please! Yeah, just, um, yeah, this'll be like a mini class that we'll put on the airwaves. Um, okay, so, my number one pick is My Love is Mine All Mine by Mitzki. I am so happy that she's finally getting the recognition that she deserves. She is part of an indie label, so she does still count. But for those of you who might not know it, it's that TikTok sound that's gone super viral. This is textbook how to do weird poetic lyrics without sounding like super pretentious. And I don't think a lot of like young songwriters know how to thread that needle. Um, a lot of times they want to do something super poetic and something super in their feelings, and they want everything to have a meaning. Every word, every last syllable. But really what matters most is having a strong melody and this definitely does. It's a sweet song. I love it. I can listen to it on repeat and yeah, if, if you want to learn how to write really heartfelt poetic lyrics, definitely look at Mitski. For sure.

J. Xander:

Yeah. One of our teachers, uh, Prince Charles Alexander. Yes, that's really his name, y'all. Um, who taught our genre studies class something really, um, important to me one time, which is you can write a song about basically anything. It's just if people, if it will stick with people, that's like kind of the most important thing, I think. And this song, I definitely feel like exemplifies that well, because like you're saying, it is like a very deep song, but it's also really singable, so.

Nina:

It's very singable. What's great about it is it has, like, a half verse too. Like, she understands that chorus is what people want to hear again.

J. Xander:

Yeah. Exactly.

Nina:

Um, she self produced her first two albums, which, while still in school, which is incredible. Like, I look up to this woman like you wouldn't believe. Like, she's my hero. Wow. Especially someone who, like, just did her own album all by herself.

J. Xander:

That's so hard. Yeah.

Nina:

Well, I had help, but Not from a label.

J. Xander:

Very cool. Yeah, I gotta go back and re listen to a lot more of her stuff. I do know that song, but I don't feel like I know that much about her, sadly, so. Gotta go back to do research.

Nina:

I, one time listened to this, uh, TikToker and he's like, if you listen to Mitski, you've known real pain. Like if you listen and you get it, you've known real pain. Yeah. I think about that all the time. Anyway, so we'll put together the playlist. I actually can't wait to listen to this playlist because it's gonna be so good.

J. Xander:

I'm happy it was all different artists. Honestly.

Nina:

Me too. I really strive to, to include people that I really love and admire in as many as I could, um, and honestly, I, we all need new music, especially this time of year when Christmas music is controlling the airwaves, so this playlist might become my go to. Alright, J, are you ready to move on to your playback pick of the week?

J. Xander:

Um, yes, sure.

Nina:

Let's do it.

J. Xander:

So, mine is gonna be a song called Schlutt by Shy Girl, because again, I went down like a long rabbit hole of listening to her stuff, and I think that this song is just so cool, it's so catchy, and it's, it's different too, it showcases like her rapping and singing as well, and the track is really well made, so it all kinda just works together for me.

Nina:

Amazing. Shy Girl, I'm gonna have to go down that rabbit hole. What a good name, too.

J. Xander:

I know, right?

Nina:

That's such a great, great moniker, like I love, what a great project name.

J. Xander:

Yeah, I hope to work with her one day, I feel like we would make a ridiculously good track.

Nina:

Oh my gosh, I, I have said before that you need to work with as many female rappers as possible.

J. Xander:

Please, I want to.

Nina:

I feel like that is where you will just like, bloom and blossom as a producer, like you would just have too much fun with it.

J. Xander:

Yeah.

Nina:

Yeah, some indie artist in their feels would approach you to produce a track and you'd be like, oh, okay.

J. Xander:

Okay, yeah. If you can meet this price point, sure. But if Ice Spice calls me, yeah, what do you want?

Nina:

Whatever you want.

J. Xander:

What do you want? How many? Yes.

Nina:

My soul, the blood of my firstborn child, I'll give it to you.

J. Xander:

Fuck them kids.

Nina:

Oh my gosh. Okay, so my playback pick of the week, um, I went down a rabbit hole earlier this week where I was just listening to a ton of written by Julia Michaels. Um, and so my playback pick of the week that I have not been able to listening to is Sorry by Justin Bieber. Going all the way back to 2015. I don't know what it is that makes that song so dang catchy, and I'm, I'm looking for what it is specifically. But I really, I can't stop listening to it. I remember that album came out, um, and it was just banger after banger. The Purpose album, with Justin Bieber. It was such a good album.

J. Xander:

I think that song has, she's really well known for like, Really interesting melodic rhythms, right? And it's like that chorus has like weird pauses in between. Missing more than just your body. It's like those little pauses in the middle are so interesting. Cause that's not how you would say it, but it sounds really cool in a song.

Nina:

It's very, it creates like this great hesitant feeling. Like, of, is it too late to say sorry? I think, yeah. Julia Michaels is known for her melodic rhythms. And that's why I've specifically been listening to a lot of written by Julia Michaels. Um, I also had Hands to Myself by Selena stuck in my head, which is so good. So good. I forgot how good that song is. Um, but yeah. Julia Michaels what a goat,

J. Xander:

Another queen of songwriting.

Nina:

Uh, yeah. Imagine her and Bonnie McKee in a room.

J. Xander:

Yo, I remember when she was on Songland that song where they like presented songs for the artist and she was the artist that they were writing songs for. And I was like, holy shit. That's so intimidating.

Nina:

Why would you write for Julia Michaels?

J. Xander:

Yeah, I don't, like, that's weird, right? But, like, that's how they had it set up where, like, she was the artist that week where they would write for her. And I think even with the song that, like, won that week she was like, I think I'm still gonna change some of the lyrics, but this was my favorite.

Nina:

Oh my gosh. If someone was like, do you wanna write a song for Julia Michaels? I'd be like, no, I wanna write a song with Julia Michaels. I don't wanna do this without her in the room. She really is, like, A genius from a young age, like, grew up around songwriting and made it her own. Just incredible.

J. Xander:

Yeah, for sure.

Nina:

Alright, J, do you have any big takeaways for indie artists who might be listening?

J. Xander:

Not really. Thank you for all your work, because I know how hard that struggle is. But, other than that, I'm really glad we decided to do this particular theme this week Um, so it was, it was fun to see, like, You know, these artists that aren't necessarily as held to like, corporate standards, if you will. So there were a lot more, I think, experimental tracks, sounding tracks on like, my list. But I like that. It's, you know, it's nice to hear what else is out there. Even though I love the billboard stuff also, it's, you know, fun to hear new music.

Nina:

No, it is, and I love listening to artists experiment. Um, it's gotten to a point where it's so expensive to make music now, and the return on investment is so small that, I mean, this is, a lot of times it's a huge financial investment for artists just buying equipment alone and learning how to use it, etc.

J. Xander:

Mics are expensive.

Nina:

Mics are, ugh, a good one? Oh my gosh.

J. Xander:

Yeah, at least a thousand.

Nina:

Yeah, so I have so much admiration for people who are doing it all on their own. Um, it's, it's a struggle, but because it's gotten so expensive to make music and because record labels have gotten really stingy, you don't see a lot of experimentation in top 40 anymore. Like, it used to be that top 40 artists would just try something and not so much, and so it's great to see, like, Um, when I was talking about Semantics and talking about, like, this guitar sound is so weird, it's so different, it's so cool. Like, I now have a reference if I ever want that guitar sound, and so it's been great listening to and learning from independent artists this week. Um, love you all. To death. Wishing everyone the best. Alright, you ready to say goodbye?

J. Xander:

Yup. Go out and write a great song, y'all.

Nina:

Alright, go create some good in the world, y'all, and we will see you in the new year, in 2024. Wishing you a happy holiday season, and hopefully we'll see you soon.

J. Xander:

Bye. Bye.

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