Songwriters Nina Blu and J. Xander review the songs that set records for sitting at the top of the Billboard Hot 100 for the most weeks. From "Old Town Road," to "Despacito," and lengthy discussions about Dolly Parton and Mariah Carrey, they review what makes a song have sticking power: what rules it follows and what rules it breaks.
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Songwriters Nina Blu and J. Xander review the songs that set records for sitting at the top of the Billboard Hot 100 for the most weeks. From "Old Town Road," to "Despacito," and lengthy discussions about Dolly Parton and Mariah Carrey, they review what makes a song have sticking power: what rules it follows and what rules it breaks.
Listen to the songs we talk about here
Follow Us on Instagram
Watch the Video Podcast on YouTube
AI Generated Transcript
More Information
Welcome to Playback, the podcast all about the Billboard Hot 100 and what's trending in music right now. I'm singer songwriter Nina Blu.
J. Xander:And I am singer songwriter producer J. Xander.
Nina:All right, guys, let's get into it. Ariana Grande, Demi Lovato and Idina Menzel have both have all dropped Scooter Braun with rumors that Justin Bieber is soon to follow. For those of you who don't know, Scooter Braun is most famous for managing Justin Bieber from early on in his career, but he is most infamous for his that with Taylor Swift when he bought her former label, which included the rights to her masters and then sold them, which has led to the re recording of all of her albums. Have you seen this news, J? Like I, I've been following it like crazy.
J. Xander:Yeah. It's everywhere. Um, I'm just wondering what it is that caused that now, cause they've been with him for like a couple years now. Um, so it had to have been something specific, you know, something had to have went down.
Nina:It. It has to be big, like people online are speculating, are we getting a documentary that's going to drop, like, is some big news story going to drop, is he going to get arrested? It's, it's a big, big deal. Um, he's had some shady business practices for a while, he's not beloved in this industry, but I watched this one TikTok video of this girl who went through his, like, client list, and she's like, does he really do anything for anyone? Like, think about it. Ariana Grande is just now getting her first feature film, um, he has Idina Menzel, like, Demi Lovato, like, are they getting what they need for their career? They could have anybody as their manager. I mean, yeah, you know, truthfully, but I mean, they should have had more opportunities with a voice like that. Come on.
J. Xander:Yeah. That's crazy to me. Well, you know, I guess people live and learn. Uh, you never really know a person, so.
Nina:No, Karma is my boyfriend. That's my favorite part of this whole thing, is that people are looking at Vigilante Shit to suppose that he's in trouble with the FBI. There's that one specific verse. Um, someone told his white collar crimes to the FBI. People are speculating that that's about Scooter Braun.
J. Xander:Ooh, wow.
Nina:Because they've had beef for so long. I am fascinated. I want to know. I hate that I don't.
J. Xander:Yeah, when life imitates art. Anyway.
Nina:Watch as soon as we upload this podcast. It's gonna come out. Whatever it was. Whatever news
J. Xander:it was. Watch it happen like an hour after we hit post. With our luck. 15 minutes. Yeah, that's what's gonna happen.
Nina:I know another podcast that jokes about that all the time. That's probably going to happen to us. Moving on, Fyre Festival 2 has been announced and tickets are selling now. Jay, are you, uh, looking forward to Fyre Fest 2?
J. Xander:No. I don't, I can't imagine anyone is, honestly.
Nina:That was wild. For those of you who don't remember, the first Fyre Festival was a disaster of epic proportions and was the subject of two competing documentaries. I remember everyone was asking, did you watch the Hulu one or the Netflix one? Um, at the helm of this Titanic is Billy McFarland, and when I went to look him up on his Wikipedia page to like get more information about him for the podcast, next to his name in parentheses, it lists him as fraudster. As if it's like, his, yes, as if like, it's his, um, what is it? Occupation. Like, that's his job. It just says fraudster.
J. Xander:A professional fraudster. Wow.
Nina:They're probably doing it to like, differentiate from another Billy McFarland.
J. Xander:Isn't there, isn't there another more appropriate word for that though? Like, scammer, con artist, like, you know. There has to be something out there that's more accurate than fraudster.
Nina:I feel like fraud is the legal term. That's why they went with that. Like that's what he was accused of. Um, he's had a long history of committing fraud and was convicted and sentenced to six years, but released early. And now he's back on his bullshit. And while part of me respects that, I also hope the Feds are keeping a close eye on him. Yeah. He and Scooter can relate.
J. Xander:Yeah. And Nina, can you again clarify like what Fire Festival was for people that just like don't know?
Nina:So, Fire Festival was, like, organized on an island in the Bahamas. It was supposed to be this big, huge music festival. Um, was Ja Rule, he was part of it, he was performing, he was involved somehow.
J. Xander:Yeah, he was, like, up there with the, um, MacFarlane guy coordinating it, I think.
Nina:It was super last minute. They, like, sold out this festival and they didn't have the resources. People were trapped on an island and there was not enough food or water for them. And, I mean, the videos were absolutely. So wild and the pictures and like the eyewitness accounts. Um, there were a lot of people who weren't paid for their labor, which was awful. And there was a huge class action lawsuit. Like people were really traumatized from this experience. I can't believe that. There's going to be a fire festival two. Like I just I cannot believe
J. Xander:That it's like insult to injury I'm, sorry If you go to this concert, you are a dumbass like you are just just write scam on your forehead and just walk around with That for the rest of your life because that's wild don't go to this fucking concert y'all.
Nina:I almost want to like pack a camping backpack and just like go and and watch through binoculars. Watch the chaos unfold. What may or may not happen. Apparently there have already been issues with like getting tickets. So like the website That was launched to sell the tickets is like, not working.
J. Xander:Not working. I, I don't know. This feels like a setup for... I don't understand. The first one already sounded like, it was like, it was giving Lord of the Flies, and this one is, like, about to be Lord of the Flies Part 2, Electric Boogaloo, you know what I mean? It's like, it's crazy. This is insane that... How is this happening? Also, shout out to 50 Cent for always just trolling Ja Rule. Like, do y'all remember when he bought 200, 200 of his front row concert tickets to Ja Rule's concert? Just because, and I quote, They was so cheap. On Groupon. He just wanted to troll him. He did not know
Nina:that. On Groupon. Oh, on Groupon.
J. Xander:Or he said on Github or something. I don't remember where he bought them from. But I do remember he said that they was cheap. So that's why he did it.
Nina:Yeah, so. 50 Cent is calling you cheap. I mean, that is possibly the funniest thing I've ever heard in my life. I'd never heard that before.
J. Xander:He is a king of trolls.
Nina:Okay, so, our next story is less about scammers and more maybe about potential scams. We talked about this last week about artificial intelligence in general. Recently, a US federal court has ruled that AI generated music cannot be copyrighted. More specifically, art created. by artificial intelligence without human input cannot be copyrighted under U. S. law. It has to have some level of human authorship. Jay, what do you think? Is this enough? Is this good enough? Is this protection enough for artists?
J. Xander:I think it's a really good start and it's about fucking time that they did something about this, honestly. I think that this is like the best middle ground approach that they could come to because, you know, there's really no stopping. The generation of this kind of music out there, but there are, there has to be some kind of limitations put on it. And I think that this is a really good starting point because it protects artists from, you know, losing money to what is essentially their voice. I don't care if it's bits and pieces of it, it's still that person's voice if you really think about it. So, you know, good on this court for making a good decision. It's about time.
Nina:And I was thinking about it after we, yeah, it is about time. I was thinking about it after we talked about it last week. But if you said, produce this in the style of like Jack Antonoff. Or Max Martin, that would be dangerous too. Like there's so many ways that you can put in an AI generator, all this info. AI is really nothing to fear. You and I talked about how we utilize it last week. We use Fadr. We use ChatGPT, all of it. It's, it's totally, it's a tool that we should all learn to use, but I am really, really happy about some, some of the alarm bells that have been ringing have forced, um. People in positions of power like this federal judge to act which has been good because when social media first popped up We didn't have these protections and tech was like, oh, we'll just police ourselves because that works Cambridge Analytica anyone? So I am I'm really happy with this result. It's you're right. It's about damn time.
J. Xander:It's about that time We don't talk about that. We don't talk we don't
Nina:we don't talk about you don't talk about talk about this
J. Xander:Yeah,
Nina:say that we're both Latinx without saying that we're both Latinx. Um, moving on to Miley Cyrus. She has new music coming out this week. The song is called Used to be Young and it is supposed to accompany an ABC biographical special. I had kind of assumed that since she said she was done with touring that she would be done with making new music, but apparently not. Apparently she's just content to hang out in L. A. and make as much music as possible.
J. Xander:I mean sometimes, you know, sometimes you just gotta, on your weekends, you just gotta go hang out with a cult before you get back into the studio. It's just what people do sometimes, I guess.
Nina:Allegedly, which would be such an L. A. thing. Like, yeah, I'm in a cult on the weekends, but during the week I'm a recording artist.
J. Xander:Yeah, it's just like...
Nina:That's the most Los Angeles thing I've ever heard.
J. Xander:She's like, I'm going out to the club. And then somebody like across the room is like, Oh, with your, your friends, your besties? And she's like, No. I'm going out with the
Nina:She looks so good though.
J. Xander:Yeah, I'm going out with the cult homies. What's that movie? I wish she had
Nina:a reality show so badly. I would do anything for more Miley.
J. Xander:Oh, yeah. That would be really cool actually.
Nina:I would, I would love it. I don't think she would do it. I think somebody else would have to talk her into it.
J. Xander:Yeah, they might need subcaptions for her. I'm not gonna lie. Cause she talks like this a lot of the time. So, it's, you know, it's kinda hard to understand her.
Nina:I want her and her dad to have a reality show. Like, I want, like, the real Hannah Montana.
J. Xander:That would be awesome. Yeah.
Nina:That would be great. Some more news, um, kind of on the artistry front, financially. Digital Music News has announced that NFTs are dead. OpenSea, one of the biggest marketplaces for buying and reselling, has said it will no longer collect resale fees because streaming royalties are almost impossible to live off of, NFTs were pitched to artists as a new way of making money, and apparently NFTs and crypto are on their way out. Jay, what did you think of this news?
J. Xander:That it was a surprise to no one, in all honesty, I just, you know, I never really understood the whole point of NFTs and never really got into it and now it's very unsurprising to hear that it's just, it's literally dead at this point. Like, it's just, you know, the internet will never cease to kind of try to reinvent the wheel, if you will.
Nina:No, I think that's kind of its job too. Yeah. But like I remember I had a, a music business professor who really encouraged us to look at NFTs as like our new way of making money because streaming wasn't gonna do it. And um, and it always just struck me as a grift. Like I'm instantly suspicious of anything that's not backed by F D I C and I feel really sorry for people who invested in NFTs, like those ugly monkey things. And I don't think, I don't think they're ever gonna, that's not an investment. Like, they're never going to recoup that cost.
J. Xander:No, I feel like that's only an investment if you're like, if you're like, An artist that, like, Gorillaz, that has a very specific, you know, character, and you're gonna be selling like, merch, based around all that stuff, but like, digital images and stuff like that, it's just like, people can get that anywhere, why pay for it? So, I mean, it just doesn't surprise me at all that this is... It's not a thing anymore.
Nina:No, everyone who told me about it had a hard time explaining it to me. One person, um, explained to me that it is like really detrimental to global warming because the amount of energy it takes to produce NFTs and like track them or something with the servers. I did not understand that, but they said it was really bad for the environment. Um, and my friend Gabe called them no fucking thanks. To the NFT and I was like, I love that that is exactly what it stands for.
J. Xander:Well, y'all heard it first here first That's what it's that's what NFT actually stands for.
Nina:We got the NFT TEA Thankfully independent artists we still have Bandcamp Fridays So that right now is usually the best way besides buying merch or going to a show to support your favorite artist and that is just the advice that we have with the death of NFTs, RIP Mm hmm.
J. Xander:Pretty much.
Nina:All right. Moving on to the current top 10 on the Billboard Hot 100, Rich Men North of Richmond by Oliver Anthony Music has shot up to the top of the Billboard Hot 100, and Bad Idea Right? By Olivia Rodrigo entered at number 10. So we have a few changes, um, I have to say I think Bad Idea Right is only there because of TikTok. I
J. Xander:agree. It's, you know. I agree. It, it feels just like a string of like, phrases and sounds that would work on TikTok. Which again, if that's what she was going for, good on her, but I don't, you know. Listening to this song, I'm so sorry if you're like a huge stan of hers, but listening to this song for me was a little bit difficult. At least the first time around. Just not because it was like, egregiously terrible or anything, but because I really didn't understand what I was listening to.
Nina:I didn't either, and it kept changing so much, but, I mean, if she was trying to make a TikTok trend, she was successful, both the verse and the chorus are all over my feed, they are two separate trends that people are using right now. Um, it was a little chaotic and confusing. I liked it better the second time I listened to it, and I got more of the humor of it, but you're right. It just, it does just sound like someone strung together a bunch of TikTok sounds and made it into a somewhat coherent song. And we love Olivia Rodrigo. But I, again, like with this and Vampire, they're both on the top ten, but I'm not very impressed with them. Um, I don't know, like, how long they're gonna last. And, I don't know about this album, like, it's, I don't know if it's gonna hit.
J. Xander:It's so weird to me that these these two songs are supposedly going to be on the same album because they don't sound anything like each other and they don't really, I mean, you know, not every song on an album needs to kind of be that cohesive, but I feel like when you're choosing singles, they should be a representation. They should kind of be a preface to like what it is that we're going to hear on the entire album. Right now, I have no idea what this album is gonna sound like. The only thing that I know for certain about this album is that a lot of those songs are gonna have a lot of F bombs in every single, in every single track, because she loves cursing. Which is not a bad thing. She loves that. But, it's surprising.
Nina:And, you know, I thought it was, I thought, like, the, uh, Bad Idea Right?, the lyrics of it were a little, a little risque for a former Disney star. I was, I was like, okay, so.
J. Xander:That's why it sort of feels weird.
Nina:If you're doing anything that, yeah, that Miley did. You know, where you're just trying to break free from that and rebel from it. I think that's why it also felt weird because Olivia Rodrigo, I feel like she's my little sister talking to me about her first heartbreak. Like that's
J. Xander:Awww,
Nina:That's how I feel about her.
J. Xander:Yeah.
Nina:As pejorative as that might be, but like, I just, I love her. I adore her. Um, but yeah, I, I don't know. I'm. I feel like if there had been another single in between these two singles, maybe we wouldn't feel that way, but you're right, like, they sound so far apart from one another.
J. Xander:Don't get me wrong, though, I still hope that the album's really good, but I just had
Nina:Me too.
J. Xander:Like you said, I, I don't know how I feel about these two songs right now.
Nina:I don't either. Sorry. Time will tell. Time will tell. I read a billboard article about this Rich Men North of Richmond song. It's extremely controversial. Lots of people either love it or they hate it. Um, they compared the controversy of this song and Aldine's recent number one to artists like the Rolling Stones and Madonna, who also thrived on controversy. And I don't know, like, I feel like that's a pretty dangerous comparison, because I don't, I don't think that they thrived on controversy, I think they were just controversial as artists, for being like ahead of their time, instead of trying to like, dig up political muck, kind of.
J. Xander:Yeah, I don't think that they went out of their way to say something that they knew would get a rise from like, a certain group of people, it's just kind of, for them, my honest opinion, or like, kind of perception is, this is how I am. If you don't like it, oh well, that's just my artistry. So yeah, I definitely agree with you there.
Nina:Yeah, I just thought it was kind of a lame comparison, um, and then moving away from the controversy... Looking at the song, just purely at song craft, it feels like a first draft to me. It's a little messy all over the place. I can't sing you back the hook, which was kind of a big thing for me. Like, Rich Men North of Richmond is a really good line, but I think he changes the hook from beginning to end of the chorus. I was a little confused. I, um, it has a double verse in the middle, which I. Personally don't really like, um, I've never been a fan of like the double verse. I couldn't tell if there was a pre chorus or, or what, like it's wordy. It's very long. Um, I think it will probably be in the top 10 for another week, but I don't think it has sticking power.
J. Xander:Yeah. So. I have really, really mixed feelings about this song. I don't know anything about Oliver Anthony, um, and I kind of intentionally, yeah, I kind of intentionally kept it that way because I wanted to look at just the song itself, and I actually, You know, I really like the idea behind this song, because I feel like it's something that a lot of people are feeling right now. Um, and I definitely
Nina:Oh yeah, the first verse, I was like, I'm here for this.
J. Xander:Yeah, I definitely agree with, like, what they're trying to say here, but I do agree with you. I don't think I could sing back any of the song. Not, not just the hook. I don't, I can't. And I listened to it maybe twice in a row, um, just to really get a feel for it. And it has a lot of Mumford and Sons vibes to it, which I, I actually was super weirdly into them for a while. I don't know why, but I mean, their stuff
Nina:That surprises me.
J. Xander:Yeah. Their stuff is super catchy, but I can't. Yeah, I can't, you know, remember that. I don't think I'll remember this song a couple in a week from now, to be honest, which is unfortunate.
Nina:No. Yeah. Um, I liked his voice. Um, but it's just, you know, at first it started out really well and I was like, Oh, I relate to this. And verse two and verse three. And I was like, Oh, I'm uncomfortable. This is making me uncomfortable. These lyrics make me uncomfortable. Um, and then there was no like discernible melody. It was just kind of up and down and all over the place, um, but which I guess is kind of like typical of this sort of Americana music, um, to kind of have some wandering melodies, but at the end of the day, you need a hook. You need a hook. Yeah, refrain line. That is really memorable.
J. Xander:So yeah, this song And even the way he performs it to me, and you'll probably agree with this Nina, is it feels very much like when you're walking into, you know, insert local bar or just performance avenues name here for like an open mic night. And it's just like some guy with a guitar who swears he's like a really deep prolific songwriter, and this is kind of what comes out. And it's like, okay, you have a good idea, but it's not really refined enough to stick with people. And good on, I mean, good on him for making it to the top, obviously he, a lot of people connected to it. But, like you said, I don't think this has a lot of staying power.
Nina:No, that's a really good point. It does sound like something that you walk into a bar and you hear I went to a songwriter night recently and people were talking about like, oh, the headliner, he was Grammy nominated. He's this, he's that, he's the other. I listened to a 10 minute song that did not have a hook in it, and I cannot sing you back any part of it. Nor can I tell you what it was about. It was just nonsense. And he was singing at the top of his lungs, every like third line, which I feel like happens in this song too, where it's just like big belt moment. And it's like, but why, why are you yelling at me? Is what this feels like.
J. Xander:See, I can't remember the, that part of it either. Um, well, I remember that they did it, but it's like, I don't remember the words or anything. And that normally should be around where your chorus is.
Nina:Yeah. Yeah, you should definitely pick up in the chorus.
J. Xander:Or your refrain, whatever you're doing, whatever kind of song you're doing.
Nina:So, we were lamenting. That the Hot 100 itself has not had a whole lot of movement this summer. And we really haven't had a song of the summer, like, can you name a song of the summer, J? Like, one that you think? I can't come up with anything. It's just been too many, too many chill vibes. I mean, I guess Cruel Summer would win it for me. Um, but it's not a new release.
J. Xander:Yeah, so it almost feels like it's hard to count that. I mean. Yeah. Because it's like, I guess the, it's, it's hard to say. Yeah. Because I feel like the only, like, contenders that have been number one for, like, ever and are, like, the most memorable are Last Night, Kill Bill, and Flowers, and they, none of them are really, like, summer y songs to me. Maybe Flowers? But that's been off the number one spot for, like, a while now.
Nina:Didn't it come out in, like, March?
J. Xander:I think so. Yeah.
Nina:Yeah. It's a great song. I would love to call it Song of the Summer, but if I were to really pick a song of the summer, it would probably be Last Night. But there hasn't really been like a pop hit that has come out this summer, which is really odd. Where are our pop girlies at?
J. Xander:Yeah.
Nina:I mean, Dua came out with Dance the Night with the Barbie movie. Um, but that hasn't seen a whole lot of success in the U. S.
J. Xander:No, not until recently. It's like, Yeah, eight on the chart or something like that, but I still wouldn't call it. Yeah. Yeah song of the summer by any means Sadly because it it probably should be but it's not in my opinion
Nina:I think in the UK It's been number one for a while now And so I mean if we're in London, then it's the song of our summer, but unfortunately we are not so we decided that we were gonna talk about some of the GOATs some of the greatest of all time and Some of the songs that had the most sticking power in that number one spot on the Billboard Hot 100. They parked themselves there and they got comfortable for months at a time. Starting with record breaker Uptown Funk by Mark Ronson featuring Bruno Mars It was on the charts for 14 weeks and it's in a five way tie with other songs that we will also get to and talk about However, this song interests me most because it was also crowned by Billboard as Song of the Decade and if you really pay attention to the structure of the song, it's just a bunch of choruses strung together. One of our professors used to say, oh, it's all frosting, no cake, and that is 10, 000% this song. Do you remember when this song came out? What year was it?
J. Xander:Oh, I, I couldn't tell you, but I do remember when it, when it came out, that it was just like everywhere,
Nina:I want to say it was like 2015.
J. Xander:Maybe. That sounds right. Yeah.
Nina:That sounds about right. 2015, 2016. I remember I discovered this song really early. Like, I think I discovered it back in March, and I played it for friends, and they were like, what is this nonsense? Like, no, play something that I know, that I like. Which is so annoying. I have those moments all the time where I'm like, listen to this new thing, and people are like, no, I want familiar, I want comfortable.
J. Xander:Yeah.
Nina:And then the song exploded, and by the time that it did, I was kind of tired of it.
J. Xander:Yeah. I got to it a little bit later, which is probably why, like, I wasn't as... offended by it or tired of it, but that makes total sense. It's like once, no matter how song good a song is, eventually you kind of want to listen to something else.
Nina:I remember it was everywhere that summer, every, and I love the song. Don't get me wrong. And every once in a while, like I'll get annoyed of a song just because I hear it everywhere all the time. And then I take a break from it and I listen to it again and it's excellent. And I'm like, Oh, I. I remember why I liked this so much, and that's what happened for me with this song when we had to study this song as the Song of the Decade.
J. Xander:So what do you think made this song work, then, in your opinion?
Nina:Uh, honestly, I think it has a really... Simple melody and really catchy, funny lyrics. The melody itself is only three notes and it's easy to sing along to. Um, and it's fun. It's just nonsense and fun. It's all choruses. Like if you, if anything that you could identify as a verse is as catchy as a chorus would be. Yeah, and Bruno Mars looked like he had the time of his life singing it. He had the time of his life performing it I mean, it's just it's it's all frosting. No cake. It's that's why it was so popular. I feel
J. Xander:yeah so one thing I also want to point out to songwriters just getting started is for me Like what works really well about this song is that every section is super hooky. Um, and I think a lot of people when they're first getting started, they wait until the chorus to put in a hook, like something that people will gravitate towards. And that's just, that's way too much time to wait. Basically, like, We had a professor, um, Neil Diercks, that basically told us every section needs to be a hook, or have something kind of hooky so that it's, you know, as memorable as possible. Here, the instrumental is hooky, all the different sections, like Nina talked about, are, have some kind of hook. And also, because it has like that retro kind of feel to it, it has that kind of familiar thing, that quality that, you know, those people you were talking about earlier were kind of looking for. So it's more accessible, I think, for people that were kind of familiar to this kind of sound. Because it sounded like that 90s or 80s song to me, uh, Jungle Boogie or whatever it is, that was, it was like in a lot of 90s. Movies, so I just, when I heard it, I was like, Oh, this is, you know, this feels like something I've heard before, so I can probably get into it a little bit easier.
Nina:You're right. The instrumentals are hooky, the vocals are hooky, um, from the bass line to the guitar to the horns, there's, there are hooks in every section. Uh, it does this really cool thing where it has just like EDM risers all of a sudden, and you don't really notice them until you're listening for them, and it does pick up the energy between sections, so it does like ebb and flow a little bit, but it does keep the energy really high and really danceable, but I remember like, my older aunts know this song, know every word to it, like my aunts in Panama know the words to it, like my mom knows this song, uh, it is a great song to like get all generations up and dancing at weddings and stuff. It's, it's a fun song. It's a good time.
J. Xander:For sure.
Nina:I do remember though, uh, we had rented a beach house, me and maybe 10 friends or something, and we were all like crammed in a bunk room, like six of us, and one of my friends had been abroad and without internet for two months. She was on like a mission trip of some kind, and she had just heard Uptown Funk, and it was seven in the morning, and she started playing it, and I woke up and I almost ripped her eyeballs out.
J. Xander:Oh my gosh.
Nina:I was like, it is too early for this amount of hype.
J. Xander:Yeah, calm down. I hate morning people. They're the worst.
Nina:They're the worst.
J. Xander:All right, so let's move on to the next one.
Nina:Our next song is I Got a Feeling By the Black Eyed Peas. It was also number one on the charts for 14 weeks. It came out in 2010. I remember because it was the year that maybe was 2009 because it was the year that I graduated high school or like my senior year. And I think we listened to it all of my senior year. Um, I watched the video today and I have to tell you, I think I found the source of literally all of my body issues and the reason why millennials have so much body dysmorphia.
J. Xander:Oh yeah. Clothes back then were crazy.
Nina:Oh my gosh, I think we were just moving away from like, uh, low rise to high rise jeans. Skinny jeans were still king. And you can tell in this video. I think there were some skirts over jeans moments. It was, it was a trip. It was definitely a trip. Yeah. There are a few, like, really interesting production elements in this song that I think make it work so well. At the specific time that it came out, it has a guitar hook about the same time that, like, alternative rock was really having a mainstream moment. And it's combined with some really obvious EDM features. And then also it's the Black Eyed Peas. So it's kind of like multiple genres all coming together at once.
J. Xander:Yeah. And it also just feels like a song that you could use for multiple different situations. You know, there's always going to be some event you could play this at for sure.
Nina:Oh, for sure. Just like Uptown Funk. It's also all choruses. It is just a bunch of choruses strung together. Yeah. Every section. Is catchy is hooky and it's something every section I can sing back to you every single one.
J. Xander:Yeah those two are similar.
Nina:It mostly just relies on the refrain to bring it back together Like the I got a feeling it just keeps bringing you back in which is really interesting Yeah, um, it feels really old to me now, but at the time I think it was really ahead of its time in a pop sense
J. Xander:Yeah, I agree because it had all those different elements like you were talking about
Nina:I remember loving that song.
J. Xander:Yeah. Which is totally different than. The next song we're gonna talk about, I think.
Nina:This song feels very dated to me.
J. Xander:Oh, really? Okay.
Nina:It is We Belong Together, Mariah Carey, which is another one in the 14 week tie. I was so tired of this song. This is another one that just was everywhere.
J. Xander:It was on repeat a lot, yeah. I don't know. I guess I don't mind it as much because I am a huge fan of Mariah. I respect the fact that she's just an outstanding vocalist, and she also like, writes all her own stuff. Which not every pop singer can say, but I have another level of respect for people that do both, because it's harder. It's a different skill. Um, But yeah, I can see why this song could get on somebody's nerves, because at the time it was everywhere. And even that's an understatement.
Nina:It was everywhere. It was, I remember, it was on TV. It was in the car. It was on the radio. Every time we turned on pop radio, like, this song was playing. Every time we switched stations, this song was playing. I think that's what kind of drove me nuts about it. I listened to it back today and I really liked it. But I remember I had, I used to have a lot of those moments where if a song was just everywhere, it would wear me out. Even if I really liked it. I also really love Mariah Carey. Um, I was actually like... Jamming to her. I think last week before the podcast. Um, I remember this odd story that she wore her wedding dress from her, like, more recent divorce in this video. So I went back and I watched the video and if any of y'all want some 2000s nostalgia. This is it. Yeah, this is the video for you.
J. Xander:Yeah
Nina:It has that really big wedding dress that she had with a huge train and it's her just like rolling around in silk sheets For a lot of it, um, the plot is she's getting married, and it looks like she was gonna marry, like, this one older guy, and then ran off with his ne'er do well son, who happened to be the guy from Prison Break. It is the most, like, 2000s thing I think I've, I've seen in such a long time. Uh, it's my favorite thing ever. If you ask me what my favorite music video is, it will be this one, for eternity, always. Except for, oh wait, maybe Boyfriend. with Usher. I think it's that and then this is second.
J. Xander:Yeah, I think this one It's the same case as the other ones that there's a hook in every section and it's also just like super relatable You know, everybody has had
Nina:it is really relatable
J. Xander:Yeah, everybody's had a moment like this
Nina:The melodic rhythms in this felt almost rappy, but their sung like it's very quick, which is not something that we're super used to with Mariah Carey. It's quick, but it's still accessible. Like we understand what she's saying. We can sing along to it. And it's fun to sing along to like, I found myself singing along to it again. Um, and, and every section has a hook, like that's what it is. Yeah.
J. Xander:So bring all the hooks. Exactly. So our next song is, It's kind of also a piano ballad.
Nina:It is. It is Candle in the Wind, the 1997 version. Elton John was on the charts for 14 weeks. This is the version rewritten for Princess Diana after her untimely and very unfortunate death, who was friends with Elton John, and he kind of rewrote this song for her. It was a horrible tragedy. Um, I remember my mom loved Diana. My aunt was obsessed with Princess Diana.
J. Xander:Yeah, it was really weird.
Nina:Like, they remember where they were when they found out she died. Like, it was, it was one of those moments in history. Um, so, with this song, it's an artist's own re release. And I think in horrible tragedies, like, we reach for something familiar. So it was nice to have a song trending that was for her, but also familiar. I think it was kind of like... a way to help people through their grief at the time. I don't necessarily know if there's anything that we can glean from this song as songwriters. I listened back to it today. Nothing felt really like big to me,
J. Xander:You know, sometimes I think this is a case of just something that was like very timely. And sometimes that sometimes that's all it ultimately boils down to just because it's like, this is a great song, but it is, you know, Very of its time as well. Yeah, so it's like the Standards are quite different now.
Nina:Yeah, that chorus will always be one of my favorites. Yeah, the original candle in the wind I'm an Elton John Stan He's the person that I think I would probably pass out if I met like that one Artist that I would just absolutely freak out if I met him
J. Xander:I'd be a little starstruck. Yeah
Nina:I'm really happy that he's on the list. I, I think you're right. I think this is just a really timely moment. It's a screenshot of a moment of time where the whole world was grieving this one very unfortunate loss. Moving on to our next song, it is The Macarena by Los de Río, and it was on for 14 weeks. I could not believe that The Macarena was on this list. Um, I do think I heard it at every party as a child in the 90s. I don't remember like a party, a pool party that didn't have this song at one point.
J. Xander:Yeah. I mean, this is still played at, like, weddings and stuff. I just can't, I mean, the Cupid Shuffle wasn't on Billboard for that long, so that's shocking. Like, I vaguely remember hearing that this song was up there for a couple weeks, but I didn't know it was that long. Fourteen weeks is a lot.
Nina:I recently watched a video where people find out what it's about, people who don't speak Spanish learn that that's funny. It's and it's part of their childhood and and so it's nostalgia and they find out that it's about a girl named Macarena who cheats on her boyfriend with two of his friends while he's being drafted into the army and they are mortified, yeah Um, it's kind of, kind of a very catchy Dear John. It's kind of awful. Um, it's, it's a really simple, like, rhythm in terms of Latin rhythms. It has like that clave rhythm that's ear candy that we love to listen to because it feels like we're waiting for the next thing and it also gets you moving. I think it also has a really good non lyric hook in it. But there are words that are like really identifiable to English speakers, like, Ay Macarena, we all know that, for people who, like, don't speak Spanish, I feel like this song has an accessible hook in it.
J. Xander:Yeah, but I'm just wondering, like, what it is that made this one kind of, you know, Stand out among it amongst its peers. I guess it's just because of how weird it is You know, cuz cuz almost everything on Billboard has a hook at some point I mean this one does too obviously But I think because this one's like so bizarre and probably immediately got airplay at like, you know weddings and discos and stuff like that. It was just kind of easy to grab on to like what is this weird song? And also they put the main hook on You know the title of the song Which sometimes, sometimes artists don't do nowadays. Like Kill Bill, for example, it was, you know, they don't actually, she doesn't actually use the title of the song, which, I mean, in her case it worked, but usually it doesn't.
Nina:That's kind of an outlier. Um, but you're right. It's kind of becoming like popular to name your song something that is not a lyric that like Kill Bill, like you said, but this one is just like, here's our title. Over and over and over again. You're going to know what our title is. You're going to be able to tell everybody what it is. Um, it's, I, I don't know. I think it came with a dance. It was one of those. It's the only one on this list that has a dance to it, I think. I'm pretty sure, but I think, I, I think that's what it was. I think it was the rhythm, the hook, and the dance. Yeah. Cause the dance was accessible too, like anybody can really do it.
J. Xander:That's true.
Nina:Our next song is, I think the most iconic R& B song of all time. And it's I'll Make Love to You by Boyz II Men. It was on the charts for 14 weeks. Um, This is the song that I think of when I think of, like, the caricature of R& B. But when I listen back to it again, it is a perfect pop ballad. I listened to it today and I couldn't help laughing because I've seen it in so many comedy movies and, like, really weird spots. I think it might have been in one of the Deadpool movies.
J. Xander:Oh, really?
Nina:But the harmonies are so gorgeous in it. Like, when I really, I took a minute to listen to it and I was like, This is so catchy. It's so good. It's perfect. It's a perfect pop ballad. Like this is how you write a pop ballad.
J. Xander:Yeah. Oh my God. That's, that's so funny. Cause the only other song that I would put up there is like, maybe being the most iconic R& B song is, um, End of the Road, which is also by Boyz II Men.
Nina:This came after End of the Road. So this was their next big success. Yeah. I think it was the following year or something like that. Um, yeah. I think this song also works super well because, Yeah. They know their audience.
J. Xander:Yeah. Yeah, that's a good point.
Nina:It's women. Like there have been so many times where artists have forgotten who their audience is or even like resented their audience like we've been talking about this with Doja Cat a little bit about how she kind of hates her fans And she wants to be more artsy and this that or the other. Boyz II Men they knew who their audience was. It was horny moms who feel underappreciated, and all they want is some candlelight and some wine and somebody to make love to them.
J. Xander:They knew that they were a boy band, but they were like, oh, but we also have, like, really great vocals, which sets us apart from some of the other boy bands out there, which are just kind of, like, meh. So, I mean, they use that to their advantage. So I think this is a good case of just, like, being self aware to your, yeah, like you said, your audience.
Nina:I think the best singers of all the boy bands, they were kind of a boy band before the term boy band existed. Yeah. I would even term them like a man band. Like they, they just have like more energy. They have more presence than like boy band. I don't know. They, I, every time I hear Boyz II Men, I am reminded just how phenomenal these men sing and sing all together. Yeah. Um, I just, I love Boyz II Men. But speaking to like. Knowing your audience. I feel like multiple boy bands have forgotten their audience because they've been made fun of by like music reviewers who are disproportionately male and who think anything that women really love is silly. Um, our friend Cati Landry touched on some of that when we were talking about the Barbie movie a few weeks ago. But they were like, no, we know exactly who our audience is and we're going to sell to our audience. I think that's, I think that's powerful.
J. Xander:Yeah. Or they just want like a different fan base in general, like Zayn, he's not wrong. So sometimes it's just like, you don't want to get stuck in. Sometimes you just don't want to get stuck into a box either. So, I mean, good for them for if they realize that and make it work, but kudos to Boyz II Men for making it work to like their audience at the time.
Nina:Exactly. Yep. Our next song. Which is the last of the 14 week tie, is I Will Always Love You, the Whitney Houston rendition. It was originally written by Dolly Parton, and it was reimagined for Whitney Houston to sing for the movie. She was starring in The Bodyguard. They were originally gonna go with What Becomes of the Brokenhearted, but another movie had done that recently. And that kind of breaks my heart because that is one of my favorite songs of all time, and I would have loved to hear, like, Whitney's rendition of What Becomes of the Broken Hearted.
J. Xander:Oh.
Nina:But I think this song was actually more perfect for this. I think it was perfect for that moment in the movie. The movie was a huge explosive success, and, I mean, Whitney sings it through the roof.
J. Xander:Yeah, I feel like a shortcut to getting like a big hit and like just like why this song in general works is it's, it's kind of one of the ultimate wedding songs, and you almost can't go wrong there.
Nina:No. Okay, so I have actually a really big pet peeve with people who play breakup music at weddings, even if the song is really trendy. Cause this song is about leaving someone and knowing that you're no good for them. Dolly Parton actually wrote it for her former co star and boss, Porter Wagner. For anyone who's really interested in the story, there is a podcast called Dolly Parton's America. And it tells the whole story of this. It's really fascinating. They had a really, really toxic and odd relationship. I think if the term work wife existed, that's what he would have probably referred to her as. But apparently she wrote this song. For him, and I think it was, the deal was in exchange for a cut of the profit, he would let her out of her contract for being on his variety show.
J. Xander:Yeah.
Nina:So, Dolly Parton, absolute queen, and apparently, uh, Whitney, after the song was released, called Dolly and said, how do you like it? And Dolly said she loved it, she was over the moon about it, and she said, do you want to go through my catalog? Is there anything else of mine that you want to sing?
J. Xander:Yeah.
Nina:I think I would take Dolly up on that.
J. Xander:I would too. Alright.
Nina:I love Dolly Parton's rendition. I love Whitney's rendition. You and I have talked about this before. This really crossed genres and I think a really good, like, song can do that. With a simple concept, a good memorable melody, something relatable. I mean, Dolly's is much more vulnerable. Whitney's is these big powerhouse vocals that are memorable to the end of time. and I would say it's the Whitney vocal performance that we all remember when we think of Whitney Houston.
J. Xander:Oh, for sure. This, I mean, this song is legendary.
Nina:I think I think of this song before I think of I Wanna Dance With Somebody.
J. Xander:I do too.
Nina:Our next song is the one who broke this at 15 weeks. It was As It Was by Harry Styles, who also won the Grammy for his album. This also has a heavy dose of nostalgia in the topic of the song, the concept, and in the feel of it.
J. Xander:I, I don't, I don't know. I mean, this song is like really catchy and it's like nostalgic. It doesn't really, you know, I do like some of the, I actually like some of Harry Styles other songs better than this, but I mean, I, I get why.
Nina:I do too. There were other songs on the album.
J. Xander:Yeah, I get why people like this one, but it's. You know, not my favorite other than just, it has a lot of hooks.
Nina:It is so many hooks. I, I think there's an emotional element to like the descending melody. Cause it's like, you know, it's not the same as it was. And it kind of goes down, like things are going downhill. And I thought that was really good. So I remember listening to this song in the car with my mom. And she was like, who is this? I love this song. I was like, mom, it's, it's Harry Styles's new song. She's like, oh my gosh, like, play more. My mom does not listen to new music. She wants to only listen to, like, stuff from when she was in high school or when she was a young adult, like, that's her favorite kind of stuff. I try to introduce her to new music all the time. The only new music that she ever likes is mine and my friends. Just because she loves us. But we wound up listening to this whole album. I mean, she loved it. And when I studied it, like, line for line, it is exactly dead solid perfect. It has the same number of syllables, the melody does not fluctuate.
J. Xander:Oh wow.
Nina:It has these specific motifs, like, it is, it's, it's like he took our course on writing pop music and he hammered it every single time. It was really, it was really interesting to do a deep dive on
J. Xander:yeah, it's a well written song. It's just, I don't know.
Nina:It is a well written song. Yeah. Um, I also think it was a bit of a Tiktok trend for a minute I think that's what might have gotten it to 15 So our next song we've talked about so much ad nauseum and it is in A three way tie is Last Night with Morgan Wallen at 16 Weeks. I say we tell our listeners to go check out our other episodes. Yeah. Uh, cause we've talked about this, we talked about it at length, our last episode.
J. Xander:Last week and the first one. So, go check that one out. Like, comment, and subscribe to keep up with all the other episodes.
Nina:Love it. So let's move on to Despacito. This is Louis Fonsi and Daddy Yankee featuring Justin Bieber. It is the Justin Bieber version. Which I think is really what launched this song, but my preferred version is the one without Biebs. Sorry Bieber, I love you, but it was just a little bit odd. This is how you write a Latin hit. It's got a really accessible beat. It's kind of this cumbia meets like pop meets reggaeton, and it has. a word that is accessible to English speakers, which is despacito. Like we can all sing that.
J. Xander:Yeah, this is for me proof that like melody is always going to supersede lyrics in terms of like what people are going to remember. So I think that's the big takeaway from this one. And what I was gonna say is I do, I I agree. I like the original version more, but I think the reason why it was so successful on Billboard is because of that just collaboration aspect that's always going to intrigue more fans. In general, to kind of explore, oh, what are these two doing together, what is this, you know, it's always going to spark that thought of like, oh, what is a song with these artists going to sound like, so people are always going to be interested to click on that.
Nina:Also, Justin Bieber has a huge, very avid fan base, and that will help because we all know a massive Belieber, like I can think of two in my life, three, four. Right now. Most of them are younger cousins, but still, so like, I think that kind of what is what brought the song into the U. S. mainstream. It was co written by a Panamanian. Erika Ender I'm so proud of my little isthmus. Um, but I do have to say, if I had one more gringo friend ask me what the song was about, I was going to lose my mind. Because it would come on and my friends would be like, what is this about? And I'm trying to dance when the song comes on. Leave me alone.
J. Xander:It's not that deep. This song is not that deep. Just so you guys know out there if you don't speak or if you all don't know out there and you don't speak Spanish. It's, it's not that deep. It's just a song about dancing slowly. That's it. That's your whole take away from it. It's just, it's catchy because of the melody. That's it.
Nina:And comparing it to other elements that you can do slowly.
J. Xander:Yeah. That's not Shakespeare.
Nina:Um, that are similar to dancing. There, there is an element of that. But I was so annoyed because people would stop me and I'm like getting down to the song because it was so good. And they're like, what is this about? I'm like, look it up on your phone, leave me alone. Stop asking your Latin friends to translate things for you. Google Translate exists.
J. Xander:Yeah. So let's, uh, move on.
Nina:Okay. So in the three way tie. Is One Sweet Day, Mariah Carey and Boyz II Men, and it was on the charts for 16 weeks. Mariah Carey wrote the chorus. She was working on it after her friend and collaborator David Cole passed away. She had like a working section and Boyz II Men, it turned out, were doing a similar song to honor the same person. And they came together. For this really huge R& B hit. One odd note about it, do you remember that document that I had of all of like, the keys?
J. Xander:Yes.
Nina:We used all of the, um, keys and what, like, composers used to think that they meant.
J. Xander:Yeah. Y'all, so Nina had this
Nina:So, this is an A flat major.
J. Xander:Yeah, Nina had this chart of just, like, different keys and whatnot, and each of them had, really weird Baroque Shakespearean, descriptions of what each key stands for. It was wild.
Nina:It was so good. One of them is like womanly longing or something.
J. Xander:Some Jane Austen. Yeah, like Jane Austen shit.
Nina:Honestly, I should make a TikTok about it. But so this one was in A flat major. I will always remember this because A flat major is considered the key of the grave. And that kind of shook me when talking about like someone looking down on you from heaven.
J. Xander:That's crazy.
Nina:I was like, ooh, oh my gosh. Um, this song to me, it's a, it's a good song. It's a really sweet sentiment. Um, someone like I know you're looking down on me from heaven and, one sweet day, like we'll be together again. I think it's a very sweet song. No one come for me. It's a good song. It just feels really, really dated.
J. Xander:Yeah. It's very of its time. I'll say that, and it uses some words, I think, if I remember correctly, that you wouldn't... Normally use as well, but that's like a nitpicky thing. Um, yeah, I think more. So it's just like the overall sound Like instrument choice also that doesn't help it in its favor But I'd still like this song and I'm glad that it is one of the you know GOATs of Billboard because it is, you know, it's coming from two legends. And again that shows that collaborative power but also it's a song that you wouldn't normally expect to see on Billboard. You normally wouldn't see something about honoring a dead person on there. But for me, a lot of the super big hits, like one of our professors, Bonnie Hayes, also said was that, you know, one thing that they all have in common is that they break one of the rules. I think this one does. It's a good job of that as well. But yeah, overall, I think it's a great song, but I don't necessarily know that there's too many takeaways that would work from it from a songwriting standard now.
Nina:I think that's right. It's a beautiful song. It's a great song. I'm happy. It is where it is. I'm happy to go. But I, it's very timely. It's of its time, which has been a couple of these. So we'll see if some more records are broken in the coming years. Our final one, it was the number one spot for a total of 18 weeks, it is credited sometimes as 19, but the song had one at the top, and then the other 18 weeks were this remix, it is Old Town Road, Lil Nas X, featuring Billy Ray Cyrus. I love this song, I was listening to it today, and I forgot how much I love this song.
J. Xander:It's just, I mean, sometimes you don't have to be like this. prolific, pretentious songwriter out there. Sometimes it's okay just to have fun. I feel like a lot of these songs have that in common, is that really they're just, you know, some of them are really big ballads, but I feel like those are the outliers. But the big ones are just like fun. This song is fun. It's current, it takes something familiar from two different genres and marries it, marries them together pretty well. I think that's what kind of leads to its success. It's just the fact that it's hooky, it's a collaboration, a weird collaboration at that, and it takes two super big prevalent genres together and does a pretty good job of marrying them together, you know? Like, Incorporating hip hop and country doesn't always work for me. I think it works with this song.
Nina:It works so well. The lyrics are so funny to me. They're like a caricature of country music. But it's like a loving caricature. Like, it's done with love and respect. Like, when I make fun of country music, I love country music. But you got to make fun of it. It talks about like his dog and I cheated on my baby and he does such a good southern accent with that. It's just, it's delicious. But when you talk about the collaboration. It gets even weirder, because my favorite story about this song is it's based on a banjo line from a Nine Inch Nails song. So Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross have writing credits on this song.
J. Xander:That's amazing.
Nina:The producer who made the beat used a Nine Inch Nails sample, and then put the beat up online and Lil Nas top lined to it. And I think that just makes the song so current, because that's what so many artists are doing today. Is they're sampling and they're finding beats online and they're writing to the beat. Which is essentially just top lining.
J. Xander:It just works together well.
Nina:And I love that Billy Ray hopped on it to give Lil Nas some, some credibility.
J. Xander:I know.
Nina:Some street cred with the country folk.
J. Xander:I know, and shout out to Billy Ray for having such a mega hit under his belt, you know? Who thought that would happen?
Nina:Yeah, I haven't
J. Xander:It's very, very unexpected.
Nina:I didn't think we'd get anything, after Achy Breaky Heart.
J. Xander:Goes to show, you never know what will happen.
Nina:You never know. Every single Achy Breaky Heart joke on Hannah Montana. made me laugh out loud every time.
J. Xander:I know. I know that's like corny when shows do stuff like that, but I like when they're like self referential like that. I think it's funny. I think it's clever. And I think it's like, Oh, you know who your audience kind of sorta is.
Nina:It's very meta. I love when people can make fun of themselves too. It just, it, it speaks well of their character. We're going into our final segment this week. Our Playback Picks of the Week. J, what is your Playback Pick this week?
J. Xander:So, mine is Sweet Dreams by La Bouche. And the reason why is because this song is basically if Planet of the Bass was like a real song. Like, it literally just feels like this is the song that they were going for. Especially like the rap section of this song. It's like they listened to that and they were like that that's what we're gonna make fun of but Sweet Dreams is just on It's in its own right? It's a really good song like it has a really good non lyric hook in it and Melanie Thornton, which you know rest in peace She died so young at 34 Which is oh my god, yeah, which is so shocking to me and she she was a Such a great vocalist. I feel like when Whitney Houston was starting to get more into like dance stuff I feel like that that's the kind of voice and sound that she was she was going for Um, I could be wrong about that. But yeah, this is unironically one of my favorite dance songs because it's, it's catchy with the instrumental. It's sung really, really well. They did a really cool live version of it. So check that out if you haven't before. It has a great non lyric hook and it has a really weird rap section in the middle that is English, but doesn't really feel like English, which is what a lot of these songs do. But yeah, that's my Playback Pick of the Week.
Nina:Well, like you said with Despacito, melody rules, melody rules over lyrics every time. Okay, so my playback pick this week, you know this, I would die for this man, Hozier released his new album, Unreal Unearth, So it's written about Dante's Inferno, the epic poem, which is one of my favorite things I ever studied in high school English, and we had such a cool English teacher that like, we had fun reading it and all of my friends had fun reading it and we used to like, I think it was funny to tell each other which circle of hell we were going to go to.
J. Xander:That's funny.
Nina:So, it'd be like, you're going to the fourth circle of hell. And this is back when I knew all the circles off the top of my head.
J. Xander:Hilarious.
Nina:Some really notable songs are De Selby Part 2, Francesca. Damage Gets Done, featuring Brandi Carlile and Unknown/Nth, um, I don't know specifically how to say that, it's about the 9th circle, um, it's dark, it's moody, it's earthy, he's one of my favorite male vocalists of all time, of all time,
J. Xander:yeah, same, same, very like deep, rich voice,
Nina:I mean, it's, yeah, It's truly like it. I don't know how. It's like I'm literally at a loss for words.
J. Xander:It's like Lord of I've only heard like half the album so far, but it's like Lord of the Rings meets like current soul and like rock and is so many other influences. It's like a very earthy sounding album, just like you would expect from him. But it's also like, I mean, ethereal at the same time. I have a friend, I'm not gonna say their name, but because they pick up the Lord of the Rings vibes so much, they refer to Hozier as Elf Daddy, and I always think, I always think of him that way now. I just, when I see him, or just even read his name, my brain immediately goes, Elf Daddy before anything else.
Nina:I feel like that tracks, did, have you heard he's like 6'5 or 6'7 or something? Like he is huge. Yeah. I've seen him twice live. If you have the opportunity to see him live, it's incredible. All of his musicians are incredible too. He's just always got a really good band with him. Great people doing great work on stage. And I love to see it. It's one of the best shows I've ever seen. This album has. True heartbreak on it. It's got some moments of levity. It's got some really like deep, dark discussions on it. And it's just, it's interesting. I'm, I'm hearing something new every time I listen to it, and I love it, and I love you, Hozier. Yeah. I love you so much.
J. Xander:It's great.
Nina:Loving Hosier and watching Derry Girls is like the closest I ever get to celebrating my little bit of Irish heritage.
J. Xander:Irishness.
Nina:Like, that's about it.
J. Xander:That's funny. I was just watching part of that show the other day with my friend.
Nina:I love that show. All right, guys. That is our episode. J, do you have any words of wisdom for the listeners back at home?
J. Xander:No. Go out and write a fun song. Don't, don't feel like you have to be a martyr every time you make art. Sometimes it's just what's fun will connect with people more, as we just saw with some of the songs we talked about today.
Nina:I feel that we all need a little more fun and bright and happy in the world for sure these days. All right guys, stay safe, go make some good in the world, go make some good art in the world, and we'll see you next week.
J. Xander:Bye!
Nina:Bye!